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Author
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Topic: Gay\transgender -- not by genetics, not by upbringing, not by choice
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 49 of 276 (660903)
04-30-2012 2:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 46 by Rahvin
04-30-2012 1:09 PM
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Because one of these is indicative of a mental disorder, and the other is a person in need of medical and surgical help. How is it determined which is which?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 46 by Rahvin, posted 04-30-2012 1:09 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 53 by Rahvin, posted 04-30-2012 2:55 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 67 of 276 (660940)
04-30-2012 10:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 66 by crashfrog
04-30-2012 7:48 PM
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Re: Ok, I'll be that guy
And yet the phony assertion that a choice is somehow "harmful" - without any argument put forward in support - is frequently used to deny people choice. People who care about you tend to error on the side of caution.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by crashfrog, posted 04-30-2012 7:48 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 70 of 276 (660949)
05-01-2012 12:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 53 by Rahvin
04-30-2012 2:55 PM
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Psychiatry. The same way we determine whether depression is a mental disorder or just a state of being. The same way that we have determined that being gay is actually not a mental disorder, even though a lot of people don't "get it." There have been many studies on transgenderism. I'll see if I can dig up some of the ones I've seen in the past.
Can they distiguish between a person who has BIID and one that is transgender?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by Rahvin, posted 04-30-2012 2:55 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 71 by Straggler, posted 05-01-2012 4:28 AM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 87 of 276 (661022)
05-01-2012 12:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 71 by Straggler
05-01-2012 4:28 AM
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Re: Body Integrity Identity Disorder
I have to admit BIID does seem like something that is comparable to sexual re-assignment in the context of this debate. I've been doing some reading, and I'm having second thoughts. BIID is a psycological disorder and amputation is not offered as a treatment. Transexualism is trying to be distanced from being classified as a psycological disorder, they're gonna refer to Gender Idendity Disorder as Gender Dysphoria instead, and sexual reassignment surgery is currently used as a treatment. I guess it boils down to: If you're crazy then we ain't gonna cut on you, but transsexuals are sane.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by Straggler, posted 05-01-2012 4:28 AM | | Straggler has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 140 of 276 (661586)
05-08-2012 10:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 135 by crashfrog
05-07-2012 10:32 PM
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Re: Just to clarify
What you are and how you act are the same thing. I dunno about that... wouldn't that mean that this guy is black:
If simply acting like a man makes her a man, then doesn't that kind of eliminate the need for the surgery? Why surgically turn a man into a woman, if all he has to be a woman is to act like one? Edited by Catholic Scientist, : re-worded last phrase to avoid confusion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 135 by crashfrog, posted 05-07-2012 10:32 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 143 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2012 4:58 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Way to play dumb and dodge the point... ABE: Hey wait:
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 143 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2012 4:58 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 221 of 276 (665223)
06-10-2012 11:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 219 by Straggler
06-10-2012 10:02 AM
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Re: Identity
Actually I've put forward brain structure as the cause and it is you who has "run like the wind" from even attempting to confront the evidence for that. In fact if we follow the bizarre logic of your argument people who want cosmetic surgery on their eyes should be seeking brain surgery instead.......
I don't want to speak for ringo, but if I've understood him correctly, he's saying that if there's something wrong with a brain, then you try to fix the brain; and he seems to find it odd to go: "There's something wrong with the brain, let's fix the genitals."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 219 by Straggler, posted 06-10-2012 10:02 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: Identity
But is there something wrong with the brain? I dunno. When (ever?) does a mismatch between the brain and the body become a problem with the brain?
Or is there a mind-body mismatch? Whoa, watch your step... you don't wanna get any dualism on your shoe 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 222 by Straggler, posted 06-10-2012 1:09 PM | | Straggler has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 230 by Straggler, posted 06-11-2012 5:50 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 225 of 276 (665237)
06-10-2012 1:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 223 by Rahvin
06-10-2012 1:11 PM
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Re: Identity
Currently the only available method of treatment for that mismatch is to alter the body, because we cannot with any success alter the brain on this level. Can you envision a place where brain alteration would be a better treatment?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 223 by Rahvin, posted 06-10-2012 1:11 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 226 by Rahvin, posted 06-10-2012 2:02 PM | | New Cat's Eye has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: Identity
So do you accept that there is a mind body mismatch or not? I honestly don't know.
How would you answer the hypothetical I put forward in Message 220 With my own hypothetical  Let's say that a brain change is a safely available alternative to a genital change. How many of the male to female transgenders do you think would opt for it? I ask because there seems to be this notion that MTF's are certainly not "men who want to be women", but I'd bet that if given the choice, they would want to have the female genitals over the male brain. Given a prevalence of them prefering the genital change to the brain one, would the notion still stand?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 230 by Straggler, posted 06-11-2012 5:50 PM | | Straggler has not replied |
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