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Author | Topic: Supreme Court upholds Obamacare | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Jon asks:
Does the current mandate create a 'single for-profit health insurer'? No, it still leaves a mess. But now providers will have to use 80% of the money to actually do health care. Or something like that.- xongsmith, 5.7d
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1487 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I didn't make either of those claims. Could you elaborate?
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Jon Inactive Member |
I didn't make either of those claims. Could you elaborate? How do phrases I quoted you saying relate to the current mandate?Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
No, it still leaves a mess. But now providers will have to use 80% of the money to actually do health care. Or something like that. But we still aren't getting the savings that a single-payer system provides by way of being the only dog in town. And this mandate doesn't get us any closer to a single-payer system. Edited by Jon, : turned the wrong phraseLove your enemies!
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1524 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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Guys if the GOP doesnt like it you can bet it is because it will probably help people and negatively affect theirpockets.
Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given."You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1487 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
How do phrases I quoted you saying relate to the current mandate? What they relate to is Taq's message 8, which those remarks were a reply to.
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3931 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined:
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I think that the way this allows us to get to single payer is via state by state waivers. Vermont passed a single payer program and this ruling will allow that to go forward assuming that they get the waiver. California was something like 2 votes shy of doing the exact same thing.
The mandate/medicaid expansion allows the states to do this without becoming interstate-medical-tourism shops for the uninsured.BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine
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Jon Inactive Member |
What they relate to is Taq's message 8, which those remarks were a reply to. So how do they relate to the current mandate?Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
The mandate/medicaid expansion allows the states to do this without becoming interstate-medical-tourism shops for the uninsured. The Medicaid expansion is a nice inclusion. But it is still only effective for the poor. By the way, there has never been anything stopping the states from creating their own single-payer systems.Love your enemies!
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Taq Member Posts: 10033 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Would it really matter whether everyone was covered by a government-operated pool, or by a single non-profit health insurer, or even a single for-profit health insurer that operated under heavy government supervision? I think it does matter because of who each entity is accountable to. A government run system is ultimately accountable to the people. There is every reason that they would fight for cheaper and accessible health care because they are focused on serving the people. Compare this to a for-profit system where the insurer is accountable to the stockholders and investors. They have no interest in making health care affordable or accessible. What they are interested in is profit. There is no incentive for private insurers to make health insurance affordable to everyone since they can profit more from richer and healthier clients. As an analogy, Mercedes-Benz does not make a profit by making their cars affordable for absolutely everyone. In fact, no car company does. I remember seeing signs at Tea Party rallies where they were equating ACA to socialism while telling their senators to keep their hands off of Medicare. Once people get used to ACA and even test out a public option they may grow more comfortable with it, especially if the public option is able to offer cheaper but equivalent benefits. Who knows.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Dr Adequate
I love this picture
Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Taq Member Posts: 10033 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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First: Obama introduces a mandated corporatist policy to enrich health care insurance companies (which contribute no actual health care to our system. Way to go Obama!) Second: Then Obama will offer government run health care which would then eliminate health care insurance companies.
I was thinking more of public perception and how many americans are averse to change. First, you need to conquer the aversion of being forced to participate in the health care system. That is what ACA will do. It doesn't matter at this point if it is government run or private. The main fear is being forced into a system. Once that fear is overcome then the next hurdle is selling government run insurance over private insurance. From my own experience, I really don't think you could do both steps at once. Just look at the backlash against ACA.
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3931 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined:
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By the way, there has never been anything stopping the states from creating their own single-payer systems. Technically thats true, but there were numerous obstacles in the way of doing so before the ACA. For one thing, in the old system, a single state with universal health care would be a magnet for the sick poor. This would probably destroy the system. Under the ACA, the poor are essentially entitled to coverage no matter where they live. A single payer state may still be attractive in terms of lower insurance cost, which really only affects those who are paying for the premiums themselves. My understanding is also that there are some technical legal issues with the new Medicaid rules which make this much easier now which has caused some states to look at it. All we need is a couple of them to get the ball rolling and they could even form inter-state/regional pools.BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Jazzns
For one thing, in the old system, a single state with universal health care would be a magnet for the sick poor. This would probably destroy the system. This has been a problem for MA and Romneycare, with people coming from out of state for emergency care (which is a bad way to get healthcare anyway) Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: If this helps people who really need affordable health care (like me) then i am all in favor of it. Had I no insurance, I would pay upwards of $350.00 a month for my basic needs.
If the mandate is upheld as a reasonable extension of the Congress' Taxing powers then the next step to universal single payor health care support through taxation should also be reasonable.
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