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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Creationist Shortage

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Author Topic:   Creationist Shortage
ringo
Member (Idle past 661 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 166 of 415 (662725)
05-18-2012 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Buzsaw
05-14-2012 7:41 AM


Re: YEC: Say What?
Buzsaw writes:
The problem is that you, et al, reject any science supportive to to ID Biblical creationism and the existence of a higher intelligence existing in the Universe than what is common to humans,
No. The problem is that you don't understand what evidence is.
Science is like a prosecutor at the front of the court room pointing out that the bullet that kiiled the victim has the same striations as the barrel of the defendant's gun, that the defendant's fingerprints are on the gun and that the defendant had gunshot residue on his hands when he was arrested at the murder scene. The jury can see all of that evidence and agree what it is. Even the defense attorney agrees on what the evidence is, though he is welcome to put forward a plausible alternative explanation.
But you, as the defense attorney, are claiming that it isn't a gun, it's a toaster.
Unless every objective observer can agree on what it is, it ain't evidence. Muslim scientists agree. Christian scientists agree. Atheist scientists agree. Ergo, they are objective. But you don't even agree with other creationists. Ergo, you are not objective.

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10295
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.5


(1)
Message 167 of 415 (662768)
05-18-2012 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by shadow71
05-17-2012 6:54 PM


Re: CRISPRs redux
However you very rarely see Shapiro disparaged for his science.
Too bad that you refuse to focus on the science.
Overall, I think most scientists are willing to let Shapiro say what he wants to say out of respect.
Perhaps he is ahead of his time.
No. He is putting on a Barnum and Bailey's act. He is trying to sell his ideas through showmanship, and you know what PT Barnum said about suckers . . .

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Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 2905 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


(1)
Message 168 of 415 (667348)
07-06-2012 9:18 AM


Did we win?
Though I mostly just lurk here I get around to a lot of these types of forums. My general perception is that creationists have pretty much conceded the field. The forums which discuss issues of faith and science seem to be either:
1. Dominated by members who pile on to demolish creationist claims. (FreeRatio; EvC Forum; ChristianForums)
2. Dead - with no new posts for years.
3. Closed. (Christian-forum.net)
4. Hiding behind intentionally all-inclusive ToS that allow moderators to quickly ban anyone who disagrees (EvolutionFairyTale; Biblocality; Worthy Christian Forums)
That's my impression anyway. Thoughts?

Observation without application is worthless.

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6484
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 9.1


Message 169 of 415 (667349)
07-06-2012 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Itinerant Lurker
07-06-2012 9:18 AM


Re: Did we win?
Itinerant Lurker writes:
That's my impression anyway.
I think you are correct.
I see ranting and whining, but very few attempts to make reasoned arguments.
I'm guessing, but I suspect that this is due to the increasing role of the Internet. It has become quite hard to keep those children ignorant.
Edited by nwr, : fix bad typo (I had buz instead of il)

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 984 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 170 of 415 (667350)
07-06-2012 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Itinerant Lurker
07-06-2012 9:18 AM


Re: Did we win?
No, we haven't "won" by a long, long shot. See "Texas Board of Education" for a prime piece of evidence.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by marc9000, posted 07-06-2012 9:36 PM Coragyps has not replied
 Message 179 by Buzsaw, posted 07-06-2012 9:54 PM Coragyps has not replied
 Message 180 by dwise1, posted 07-06-2012 10:07 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3962 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 171 of 415 (667352)
07-06-2012 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by nwr
07-06-2012 9:34 AM


Re: Did we win?
nwr writes:
I'm guessing, but I suspect that this is due to the increasing role of the Internet. It has become quite hard to keep those children ignorant.
Separate from (and including) the E. vs C. debate, I fervently hope this is true.

CRYSTALS!!

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Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 172 of 415 (667361)
07-06-2012 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by nwr
07-06-2012 9:34 AM


that's the impression that I get
nwr writes:
Buzsaw writes:
That's my impression anyway.
I think you are correct.
I thought, wow, nwr thinks Buzsaw has an agreeable impression of something about the Creationist Shortage issue. I must immediately see what impression that was.
But no, it was Itinerant Lurker all along. I guess my worldview isn't shifting much today, after all

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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1530
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 173 of 415 (667404)
07-06-2012 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Percy
05-12-2012 8:28 AM


Re: Evolutionists Behaving Like Jerks
Speaking for myself, I don’t post much anymore because I simply don’t have the time. It takes time to adequately respond to the tremendous piling on that all creationists here must endure.
foreveryoung writes:
All of the creationists have gone because most of you act like jerks toward creationists. Why would any of us want to stick around and be treated like that? Most of all, we get tired of reading all of your guys crap.
I have to agree. Too many evolutionists here have little patience with creationists, dismissively descending into denigration and sarcasm at the drop of a hat.
A large part of the reason for that is the frustration evolutionists have that the general public in the western world isn’t adopting to their political, (atheist/liberal) views near as quickly as they expect. Science isn’t dominating politics as much as they’d like, atheists aren’t yet achieving prominent political positions.
We seem to forget that even though we've rebutted a position a hundred times that the new creationist member is often figuring out how to defend it for the first time.
It should be possible to be right without becoming despised in the process.
This is what science/evolution has become. Phrases like we’ve rebutted, or wrong about economics (from the opening message) shows that evolution has become exactly what it was predicted by many past, prominent evolutionists to become, a complete worldview, with all the unchangeable beliefs, all the faith, all the desire to forcefully convert others. Just like an establishment of religion that the U.S. founders prohibited.

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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1530
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 174 of 415 (667405)
07-06-2012 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Percy
05-12-2012 9:46 AM


Re: Evolutionists Behaving Like Jerks
Buzsaw writes:
Your other moderators tend to allow more leeway. Your evolutionist constituency, and if I remember correctly, including some moderators, voted to allow me back in the science fora. Go figure, Percy.
This thread isn't about you. Figuring out how to stop yourself from turning every thread into a discussion about you is one of the prerequisites before a return to the science forums could be considered.
I think it is largely about him. Most of the examples of why there aren’t many creationists here can be found in the way he is treated, since he clearly seems to be the one religious poster here with the most staying power.

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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1530
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 175 of 415 (667406)
07-06-2012 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by crashfrog
05-12-2012 10:46 PM


foreveryoung writes:
You and many here show true hatred and violence toward creationists on almost every post.
I think you drastically overestimate our regard for you. I feel like I can speak for most of us when I tell you that we just don't think about you enough to hate you. The boot does not hate the ant, to paraphrase a recent movie.
In exactly the same way, this sums up why there aren’t many creationists here. Science is controlled by atheism, and scientists largely overestimate Christians regard for THEM. They don’t think about them enough to bother to post here.
Christians are interested in the science that develops things like computers, medical procedures, chemical advances, etc. — things that promote better societies here and now, not the speculation of what happened millions and billions of years ago, branches of science that do little more than provide intellectual fulfillment for atheism.
It's pity, not hatred. You need to adjust your emotional radar. We're not angry with you; we're saddened by you.
As countless thousands of Christians are saddened by forums such as these.

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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1530
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 176 of 415 (667408)
07-06-2012 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Percy
05-13-2012 7:22 AM


Re: What's the purpose here?
Hi Xongsmith,
This site exists to examine the claim that creation and ID are every bit as much science as what is currently taught in public school science classrooms. This is how I originally came to the debate, and this is still how I frame it.
That may be another significant reason there aren’t many creationists here. The claim that creation and ID are every bit as much science as what is currently taught, is only a fraction of the entire creation/evolution debate. Your quest to examine that claim includes several religious sub-forums, including as one example The Bible, Accuracy and Inerrancy, located in the science forums, yet there is no sub-forum that examines the relationship between evolution and atheism. If that sub-forum existed, I believe I would have a renewed interest in starting threads and posting more than I currently do. Maybe other creationists would as well.
Edited by marc9000, : No reason given.

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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1530
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 177 of 415 (667409)
07-06-2012 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Coragyps
07-06-2012 9:35 AM


Re: Did we win?
No, we haven't "won" by a long, long shot. See "Texas Board of Education" for a prime piece of evidence.
Very good! Not only Texas however, but the real world in general.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2355 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(5)
Message 178 of 415 (667410)
07-06-2012 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by marc9000
07-06-2012 9:36 PM


Re: Did we win?
The "real world" is not defined by dogma, divine revelation, ancient tribal myths, or the voices in one's head.
Nor is it defined by magic, superstition, wishful thinking, old wives tales, folklore, what the stars foretell and what the neighbors think, omens, public opinion, astromancy, spells, Ouija boards, anecdotes, Da Vinci codes, tarot cards, sorcery, seances, sore bunions, black cats, table tipping, witch doctors, crystals and crystal balls, numerology, divination, faith healing, miracles, palm reading, the unguessable verdict of history, magic tea leaves, new age mumbo-jumbo, hoodoo, voodoo or any of that other weird stuff.
The real world is defined by empirical evidence.
Science has a lock on that.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 179 of 415 (667411)
07-06-2012 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Coragyps
07-06-2012 9:35 AM


Re: Shortage Of Creationists
Coragyps writes:
No, we haven't "won" by a long, long shot. See "Texas Board of Education" for a prime piece of evidence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken
Coragyps, your false and demeaning message above demonstrates the reason for creationist shortage here at EvC.
First off, not all of us believe that prayer and medicine are silver bullets to cures. Healthful habits and diets trump both of these,
As per topic, the above type creationists are not what EvC needs or wants.
That's not the problem with EvC's shortage of effective creationists. EvC's greatest, i say greatest problem is how they are treated when posting messages of substance, compared to the treatment of evolutionists.
Too often, counterpart respondents resort to personal attack, demeaning remarks and unkindness in general.
Admin, too often, attends to them, moreso than he does to evolutionists, sometimes in an unpleasant or unkind manner. More is required of them, especially effective ones, than to evolutionists.
Perhaps I'm being too blunt but that's how I see it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Coragyps, posted 07-06-2012 9:35 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 6076
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 7.4


Message 180 of 415 (667412)
07-06-2012 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Coragyps
07-06-2012 9:35 AM


Re: Did we win?
No, we haven't "won" by a long, long shot. See "Texas Board of Education" for a prime piece of evidence.
What precisely about the Texas Board of Education? Or did you really mean the Texas Board of "Education"? -- i.e., were your quotation marks misplaced?
Basically, you just received two creationist Foxtrot-Uniforms over that remark which contained near-zero information. Similarly, that near-zero information inhibits anybody's ability to respond to them.
Could you please be a bit more specific?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Coragyps, posted 07-06-2012 9:35 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
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