Message 62 of 318 (667555) 07-09-2012 1:49 PM

Reply to: Message 61 by jar 07-09-2012 1:40 PM

Even if God did not exist, we humans collectively also want what is best for us as a species, though we often fight over limited resources and want for our own over the needs of others.

Phil 2:3 says Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

Thus our holy books, whether written by God or by man tell us the greater good. Sometimes I imagine God sitting on the sidelines telling us "You can do it! I believe in you" .....which puts a load of responsibility on humanities back. Will we blow ourselves up, go through a great depression, or will we make it?

I still prefer the idea of a God who helps us, however.

Message 63 of 318 (667559) 07-09-2012 3:05 PM

Reply to: Message 62 by Phat 07-09-2012 1:49 PM

Not true at all. Almost all religions have recognized benign gods, mischievous gods, even down right nasty gods.

Message 65 of 318 (667571) 07-09-2012 4:37 PM

Reply to: Message 60 by Phat 07-09-2012 1:27 PM

Well, I was just pointing out that our preferences don't come into it. We'd like a creator of the universe who was good and wise and so forth. We'd also like it if cigarettes weren't carcinogenic and chocolate was slimming. What we want doesn't make any difference to what is the case.

But in answer to your question, clearly if God exists he's different from at least what I would want (I can't speak for you) because if he exists I'd like him to manifest himself rather than hiding and pretending that he's not there.

Message 66 of 318 (667573) 07-09-2012 4:43 PM

Reply to: Message 58 by Phat 07-09-2012 12:50 PM

It is a Catholic teaching that angels are beings of pure intellect.
While humans through time develop our intellect, Angels are created with a fully developed mind. It is debated that this is one reason Lucifer's sin was so grave, he was fully cognizant of his choice to rebel against God.

Message 68 of 318 (667657) 07-10-2012 11:07 PM

Reply to: Message 67 by Phat 07-10-2012 10:52 AM

and then I said;

I wouldn't say that it presupposes pantheism, it basically is pantheism. I do not particularly like the term though as it includes the word 'theism' and I do not mean to imply any type of consciousness. I do not equate the universe with God for my own purposes (abe; so to speak). The universe is the universe. I equate God with the universe when I am reading what others have to say about God.

In my opinion, God is the idea that people use to explain the inexplicable until the real explanation comes to light. In many cases, even after the real explanation comes to light.

Edited by Dogmafood, : as noted

Message 69 of 318 (673794) 09-23-2012 6:58 AM

Reply to: Message 65 by Dr Adequate 07-09-2012 4:37 PM

Assuming that ifGod exists that He wants what is best for humanity, what would be the possible motive for "hiding"?

Message 70 of 318 (673854) 09-24-2012 10:01 AM

Reply to: Message 69 by Phat 09-23-2012 6:58 AM

Impotence.

There's a big difference between "more powerful than humans" and "can do anything imaginable."

I think the idea of an omnipotent anything is kind of immature and naive. Sort of an arms-escalation of the imagination (my dad is bigger than your dad syndrome).
If God exists, it is likely that He is not all powerful.
If God exists and He wants what is best for all of humanity, it is likely that He isn't capable of "fixing everything" in one fell swoop (or it would have been done already).
Also, if the track record is any indication, He's also been on vacation for the last 2000 years or so.

Maybe God is dead. Maybe there was a God that really wanted humans to thrive and be awesome and stuff. He did everything He could, maybe even some huge sacrifices we'll never know of... but whatever He did (if He did anything), He's already done it and for whatever reason He's incapable of doing anything more.

As people, we just need to step up our game. Acknowledge that we are not entitled to everything we lay eyes on... do our part to live in this world along with everyone else, and not just for ourselves. We need to stop relying on hope to fix us, and just shut-up and do it.

Message 73 of 318 (673929) 09-24-2012 10:41 PM

Reply to: Message 69 by Phat 09-23-2012 6:58 AM

I don't know. Embarrassment?

Message 74 of 318 (674187) 09-27-2012 12:08 AM

Reply to: Message 72 by Tangle 09-24-2012 1:38 PM

Edited by Phat, : spelling

Message 75 of 318 (674199) 09-27-2012 2:28 AM

Reply to: Message 74 by Phat 09-27-2012 12:08 AM

Well, if we can't tell the difference between a god that exists and a god that doesn't exist (either because he never did exist or because he did once but now he doesn't) my conclusion is that God is of academic interest only.