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Author Topic:   Can You define God?
jar
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Posts: 31262
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 61 of 318 (667553)
07-09-2012 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Thugpreacha
07-09-2012 1:27 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Almost certainly.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Thugpreacha
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Posts: 12789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 62 of 318 (667555)
07-09-2012 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by jar
07-09-2012 1:40 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Well if so, this is a profound and sobering reality. Humans have always sought belief and confirmation of favorable gods and not unfavorable ones. Much of modern Christianity is adamant that God loves us and desires the very best for us.

Even if God did not exist, we humans collectively also want what is best for us as a species, though we often fight over limited resources and want for our own over the needs of others.

Phil 2:3 says Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

Thus our holy books, whether written by God or by man tell us the greater good. Sometimes I imagine God sitting on the sidelines telling us "You can do it! I believe in you" .....which puts a load of responsibility on humanities back. Will we blow ourselves up, go through a great depression, or will we make it?

I still prefer the idea of a God who helps us, however.


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jar
Member
Posts: 31262
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 63 of 318 (667559)
07-09-2012 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Thugpreacha
07-09-2012 1:49 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Humans have always sought belief and confirmation of favorable gods and not unfavorable ones.

Not true at all. Almost all religions have recognized benign gods, mischievous gods, even down right nasty gods.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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ringo
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Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


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Message 64 of 318 (667562)
07-09-2012 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Thugpreacha
07-07-2012 9:53 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Phat writes:

IF intelligence exists, I propose that it is logical for a supreme intelligence to exist.


If intelligence implies an ability to learn, it seems incompatible with omniscience.
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Dr Adequate
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(1)
Message 65 of 318 (667571)
07-09-2012 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Thugpreacha
07-09-2012 1:27 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
are you implying that GOD, if God exists, is radically different from what we likely would prefer?

Well, I was just pointing out that our preferences don't come into it. We'd like a creator of the universe who was good and wise and so forth. We'd also like it if cigarettes weren't carcinogenic and chocolate was slimming. What we want doesn't make any difference to what is the case.

But in answer to your question, clearly if God exists he's different from at least what I would want (I can't speak for you) because if he exists I'd like him to manifest himself rather than hiding and pretending that he's not there.


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1.61803
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Posts: 2899
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 66 of 318 (667573)
07-09-2012 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Thugpreacha
07-09-2012 12:50 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Phat writes:

Good point. The inference is on a Creator, and we would like for such a Being(if it exists) to be well qualified in order to create a universe and be capable of knowing every living thing intimately. Infinity is a preferred characteristic of such a Being.

It is a Catholic teaching that angels are beings of pure intellect.
While humans through time develop our intellect, Angels are created with a fully developed mind. It is debated that this is one reason Lucifer's sin was so grave, he was fully cognizant of his choice to rebel against God.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Thugpreacha
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 67 of 318 (667605)
07-10-2012 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by ProtoTypical
10-03-2010 10:28 PM


God Is.....
Unfortunately, it also presupposes pantheism.
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ProtoTypical
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Posts: 1792
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 68 of 318 (667657)
07-10-2012 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Thugpreacha
07-10-2012 10:52 AM


Re: God Is.....
I said;

The only definition that I seem able to accept is that God = the universe and all that it contains. I find this definition useful when reading the bible. It completely does away with all the hoobity-how. Not much use for anything else really.

and then I said;

The most important element of this definition is that it does not require or imply consciousness. This contradicts the Godly quality of omniscience but allows for omnipresence and omnipotence.

Phat writes:

Unfortunately, it also presupposes pantheism.

I wouldn't say that it presupposes pantheism, it basically is pantheism. I do not particularly like the term though as it includes the word 'theism' and I do not mean to imply any type of consciousness. I do not equate the universe with God for my own purposes (abe; so to speak). The universe is the universe. I equate God with the universe when I am reading what others have to say about God.

In my opinion, God is the idea that people use to explain the inexplicable until the real explanation comes to light. In many cases, even after the real explanation comes to light.

Edited by Dogmafood, : as noted


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Thugpreacha
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Posts: 12789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 69 of 318 (673794)
09-23-2012 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Dr Adequate
07-09-2012 4:37 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Dr.Adequate writes:

clearly if God exists he's different from at least what I would want (I can't speak for you) because if he exists I'd like him to manifest himself rather than hiding and pretending that he's not there.

Assuming that ifGod exists that He wants what is best for humanity, what would be the possible motive for "hiding"?


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Stile
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Posts: 3844
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


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Message 70 of 318 (673854)
09-24-2012 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Thugpreacha
09-23-2012 6:58 AM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Phat writes:

Assuming that [bold]if[/bold] God exists that He wants what is best for humanity, what would be the possible motive for "hiding"?

Impotence.

There's a big difference between "more powerful than humans" and "can do anything imaginable."

I think the idea of an omnipotent anything is kind of immature and naive. Sort of an arms-escalation of the imagination (my dad is bigger than your dad syndrome).
If God exists, it is likely that He is not all powerful.
If God exists and He wants what is best for all of humanity, it is likely that He isn't capable of "fixing everything" in one fell swoop (or it would have been done already).
Also, if the track record is any indication, He's also been on vacation for the last 2000 years or so.

Maybe God is dead. Maybe there was a God that really wanted humans to thrive and be awesome and stuff. He did everything He could, maybe even some huge sacrifices we'll never know of... but whatever He did (if He did anything), He's already done it and for whatever reason He's incapable of doing anything more.

As people, we just need to step up our game. Acknowledge that we are not entitled to everything we lay eyes on... do our part to live in this world along with everyone else, and not just for ourselves. We need to stop relying on hope to fix us, and just shut-up and do it.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


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Message 71 of 318 (673872)
09-24-2012 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Thugpreacha
09-23-2012 6:58 AM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Phat writes:

Assuming that ifGod exists that He wants what is best for humanity, what would be the possible motive for "hiding"?


What if His chosen people were the tapeworms? It would be in their interest for Him to protect our interests but He'd have no reason to reveal Himself to us.
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Tangle
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Posts: 7067
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 72 of 318 (673875)
09-24-2012 1:38 PM


How would we know if there was a god once but isn't anymore?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16099
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 73 of 318 (673929)
09-24-2012 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Thugpreacha
09-23-2012 6:58 AM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Assuming that ifGod exists that He wants what is best for humanity, what would be the possible motive for "hiding"?

I don't know. Embarrassment?


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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 74 of 318 (674187)
09-27-2012 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Tangle
09-24-2012 1:38 PM


A Creator could be temporary
Tangle writes:

How would we know if there was a god once but isn't anymore?

Good point. Perhaps we want our definition of God to be omni everything, but perhaps this God was only temporary. Now what?

Edited by Phat, : spelling


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Tangle
Member
Posts: 7067
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 75 of 318 (674199)
09-27-2012 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Thugpreacha
09-27-2012 12:08 AM


Re: A Creator could be temporary
Phat writes:


Good point. Perhaps we want our definition of God to be omni everything, but perhaps this God was only temporary. Now what?

Well, if we can't tell the difference between a god that exists and a god that doesn't exist (either because he never did exist or because he did once but now he doesn't) my conclusion is that God is of academic interest only.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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