EvC Forum: Original Sin - Scripture and Reason

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Topic: Original Sin - Scripture and Reason

nwr

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From: Geneva, Illinois

Joined: 08-08-2005

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Message 10 of 203 (668309)
07-19-2012 3:15 PM

Reply to: Message 8 by Coyote
07-19-2012 2:07 PM

Re: Coming from reason

I consider the concept of original sin to be one of the most loathsome and self-destructive ideas ever dreamed up by our shaman class.

I agree.

I am unable to find any Biblical basis for the doctrine.
it makes God look like an evil monster.

Ayn Rand explained it this way

Damn! I'll have to rethink that. I wouldn't want to be agreeing with Randroids

Jesus was a liberal hippie

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	Message 8 by Coyote, posted 07-19-2012 2:07 PM		Coyote has seen this message but not replied

nwr

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Posts: 6412

From: Geneva, Illinois

Joined: 08-08-2005

Member Rating: 4.5

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Message 55 of 203 (668532)
07-22-2012 3:22 PM

Reply to: Message 50 by Modulous
07-22-2012 2:15 PM

Re: Discussion and debate are not synonymous

1) The avoidance of the negative consequences for not doing it. If someone 'catches' you not doing this, your reputation is harmed. You are acting out of the self-interest of protection of reputation. And the same 'rule of thumb' applies when nobody is watching too.

There are no negative consequences.

Maybe supermarkets in the UK are different. Here in the US, one is not expected to push the cart back to the store. There are store employees who do that.

2) By pushing grocery carts back to the store, you are instantiating the meme 'push carts back' which increases the meme's chance of being replicated by observers (or even those that merely observe the consequences)

Oh, so it is all a matter of memes. One presumes that these memes are made of an immaterial spiritual substance, part of a dualist account.

Still, memes are not motives. I don't see how this is responsive.

3) By helping your community, you are keeping the community strong. Since your community (From the gene's point of view) is probably composed of those closely related, this helps (but not much, obviously) the chances of the gene that promotes community helpfulness to replicate.

It's not much help to the community, since store employees will eventually collect those carts anyway.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
	Message 50 by Modulous, posted 07-22-2012 2:15 PM		Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 56 by Modulous, posted 07-22-2012 3:40 PM		nwr has seen this message but not replied

nwr

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Posts: 6412

From: Geneva, Illinois

Joined: 08-08-2005

Member Rating: 4.5

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Message 121 of 203 (668812)
07-24-2012 3:53 PM

Reply to: Message 120 by Stile
07-24-2012 3:44 PM

Re: Trying to summarize

Fact 2 -> People have unconscious motivations that they are unaware of and may not be able to become aware of.
...
Am I missing something? Do people seem to think that "Fact 2" is not a fact?

Yes, I do.

I see it as implicit in the meaning of "motive", that motives are conscious. I suggest other terms (such as "psychological drive") for what is not conscious. And I am inclined to think that the non-metaphoric use of "selfish" applies to conscious motives, not to psychological drives.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

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	Message 120 by Stile, posted 07-24-2012 3:44 PM		Stile has replied

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