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Author Topic:   Aurora Colorado Violence
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 16 of 236 (668577)
07-22-2012 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by onifre
07-22-2012 8:59 PM


Re: Death penalty
Legal ! = morally good or even acceptable. I think Ive made my views on crime and punishment amply clear in other threads. "Punishment" is a useless farce that just makes folks like you feel better about getting some good old fashioned vengeance. No "deterrent" will be effective in a case like this.
This man, from what I can tell needs to be indefinitely confined in a mental health facility for his own protection as well as that of society, until such time as he is no longer a threat to himself or others.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 8:59 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
(1)
Message 17 of 236 (668578)
07-22-2012 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
07-22-2012 3:56 PM


Re: Death penalty
Far too expensive and solves nothing.
Only on a individual inmate comparison. But "Life in prison" inmates out number death penalty inmates in any state by much much more. So the overall cost is still cheaper because there are far fewer death row inmates.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-22-2012 3:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 07-22-2012 9:20 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 18 of 236 (668579)
07-22-2012 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Granny Magda
07-22-2012 4:53 PM


Re: Death penalty
Killing him won't solve anything.
It solves all the same problems as life in prison.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Granny Magda, posted 07-22-2012 4:53 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Granny Magda, posted 07-23-2012 10:30 AM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 19 of 236 (668580)
07-22-2012 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by vimesey
07-22-2012 5:02 PM


Re: Death penalty
It's hard to maintain a deterrence argument, when your future perpetrator is highly likely to be deranged - and as a society, I still like to feel that we are better than that.
The fact remains though that something needs to be done with him, and it is legal to perform the death penalty in Colorado. I feel this case, if we're just stating opinion, warrents it.
I do understand the desire to put people to death, if they themselves commit murder, but to preserve our own aspirations at civilization, and to prevent even one innocent person being put to death, I would still cast my vote not to have a death penalty.
Fair enough.
- Oni

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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 20 of 236 (668581)
07-22-2012 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by onifre
07-22-2012 9:10 PM


Re: Death penalty
Inmates are individuals. It is still cheaper to house the Death Row inmate for life than to go through the expenses involved in an execution.
Maybe that's why you decided not to become a mathematician; good decision.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 9:10 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 9:32 PM jar has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 21 of 236 (668583)
07-22-2012 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Rahvin
07-22-2012 9:06 PM


Re: Death penalty
"Punishment" is a useless farce that just makes folks like you feel better about getting some good old fashioned vengeance.
I suppose it is a natural, biological trait. Why are you being all judgy about it like you're better cause you feel you're above it?
This man, from what I can tell needs to be indefinitely confined in a mental health facility for his own protection as well as that of society, until such time as he is no longer a threat to himself or others.
So lock him away and pump him full of drugs so you won't live in a world where the death penalty exists?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 07-22-2012 9:06 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-23-2012 2:31 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 22 of 236 (668584)
07-22-2012 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
07-22-2012 9:20 PM


Re: Death penalty
Inmates are individuals. It is still cheaper to house the Death Row inmate for life than to go through the expenses involved in an execution.
Thought you meant the overall cost of both systems vs one another.
So you don't like death row just because it's cheaper?
Maybe that's why you decided not to become a mathematician; good decision.
You just wrote "too expensive" and I tried to figure out what you meant by that. Don't get all cunty, we're just getting started. Plenty of time for that later.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 07-22-2012 9:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 07-22-2012 9:44 PM onifre has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 396 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 23 of 236 (668585)
07-22-2012 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by onifre
07-22-2012 2:10 PM


Re: Death penalty
Anyone against giving this guy the death penalty?
In this particular case, isn't it likely that he'll turn out to be a looney? I think that does make a difference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 2:10 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 24 of 236 (668586)
07-22-2012 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by onifre
07-22-2012 9:32 PM


Re: Death penalty
I think the fact that life imprisonment is cheaper than our execution process is a valid reason to do away with the death penalty even if there were not other moral and practical considerations.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 9:32 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 33 by Phat, posted 07-23-2012 11:41 AM jar has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1579 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 25 of 236 (668587)
07-22-2012 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by onifre
07-22-2012 2:10 PM


Re: Death penalty
Anyone against giving this guy the death penalty?
Not on any moral grounds, but only on the same practical grounds by which I oppose the death penalty in general.
That said, the fact that he was a summa cum laude student in neurology is fascinating to me. Like the Unibomber, I think there's a possibility that he may have been exposed to some experiment, or compound, that may have precipitated these actions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 2:10 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by onifre, posted 07-23-2012 9:13 AM crashfrog has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 26 of 236 (668622)
07-23-2012 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
07-22-2012 9:36 PM


Re: Death penalty
In this particular case, isn't it likely that he'll turn out to be a looney? I think that does make a difference.
Looney as in mental hospital instead of life in prison looney?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 27 of 236 (668624)
07-23-2012 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
07-22-2012 9:44 PM


Re: Death penalty
I think the fact that life imprisonment is cheaper than our execution process is a valid reason to do away with the death penalty even if there were not other moral and practical considerations.
Fair enough. I don't agree but it seems reasonable.
- Oni

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 Message 24 by jar, posted 07-22-2012 9:44 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 28 of 236 (668625)
07-23-2012 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by crashfrog
07-22-2012 9:51 PM


Re: Death penalty
That said, the fact that he was a summa cum laude student in neurology is fascinating to me. Like the Unibomber, I think there's a possibility that he may have been exposed to some experiment, or compound, that may have precipitated these actions.
I don't buy that an experiment turned Kaczynski into a Unibomber. But I'm sure this guy's whole history will be soon revealed and the media will act like vultures trying to capitalize on anything.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by crashfrog, posted 07-22-2012 9:51 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 847 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 29 of 236 (668626)
07-23-2012 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by onifre
07-23-2012 9:13 AM


Re: Death penalty
the media will act like vultures trying to capitalize on anything.
No! That would never happen!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by onifre, posted 07-23-2012 9:13 AM onifre has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 150 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


(2)
Message 30 of 236 (668627)
07-23-2012 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by onifre
07-22-2012 9:12 PM


Re: Death penalty
It solves all the same problems as life in prison.
That sounds like a good argument for life in prison. Killing him only adds to the death toll. And that's without even considering that he is likely insane. Are we really going to execute the mentally ill?
Leave him in jail. With any luck, he might some day grow a conscience and realise the severity of what he's done.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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