|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,483 Year: 3,740/9,624 Month: 611/974 Week: 224/276 Day: 64/34 Hour: 1/2 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Is Earth old enough for DNA to evolve? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
|
One of the smallest animals - an amoeba - has 670 bn base pairs.
But the relationship of base pairs and genes is not straightforward either. Humans have 3bn base pairs but only 30,000 genes, whilst a worm has 'only' 97m base pairs but 19,000 genes. Life is not easy to work out - it doesn't do straight lines. Sizing up genomes: Amoeba is kingLife, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bcoop and welcome to the fray, it is always refreshing to see someone willing to learn.
To clarify a point made by others:
The point about Deleterious mutations was only that it would add more time to the process to overcome them. In every generation there are individuals that survive to breed and those that don't. All individuals with deleterious mutations would fall in the group of "those that don't" while those without it would be in the group of those that survive and thus they continue to reproduce unaffected. Population growth is not affected by death if the rate of reproduction is greater than the death rate. Enjoy.
you seem to have a good handle on the basic format and reply functions, but ... as you are new here, some posting tips: type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
quotes are easy or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:
quote: also check out (help) links on any formatting questions when in the reply window. For other formatting tips see Posting TipsFor a quick overview see EvC Forum Primer If you have problems with replies see Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bcoop Junior Member (Idle past 4286 days) Posts: 27 From: Maine Joined:
|
Wow - how to start.
Edited by Admin, : Make more readable by using dBCodes for the lists.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
|
2. The complexity is beyond what I had even imagined. This is part of the problem that the general public like myself have in accepting the science that is presented to us. Most are not in forums like this. What we hear is that the genome has three billion pieces of information and that most if it occurred through random mutations. We think "so it just randomly organized itself three billion times and here we are". It is hard to accept intuitively that the utter complexity of genetics just randomly occurred even with natural selection. The science community has struggled with communicating this — maybe there is a straight forward presentation of genetics and evolution that does a good job of explaining these things and I suspect someone may have a suggestion. Several of the posts here were impressively clear and comprehensive in just a paragraph or two. Trust me when I say this. The disconnect between the general populace and the scientific community has been a major issue for decades, if not centuries. Sometimes it feels like the "Who's on first" act. I wish there was an easy fix, but I really don't think there is. As you are finding out, learning about what science has discovered requires a lot of effort on the part of the general populace. If you really want to understand what scientists are talking about you need a lot of background knowledge in the given field. Even more, you need a great deal of knowledge to know when someone is full of bullshit (pardon the language, but this is the nicest term I could come up with). I have just erased 5 paragraphs dealing with extremely varied topics that wandered all over the place, so trust me when I say that I am quite passionate about what you have posted. Science communication is a very, very interesting topic, especially for someone who sits on the science side of the fence. How to make it work, why it isn't working, and why it probably won't work are all questions that I find extremely interesting. I think you are starting to get a glimpse of what I am talking about. My advice? Take a firm grasp of that increasing sense of curiosity bubbling in your gut and don't let go. Enjoy the ride!!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
The diagram is still pretty confusing. I would suggest using a Google maps approach. Start with the big picture and allow users to zoom in on the areas they are interested in. For that purpose, I would strongly suggest Tree
of Life Web Project. Start here.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The science community has struggled with communicating this — maybe there is a straight forward presentation of genetics and evolution that does a good job of explaining these things and I suspect someone may have a suggestion. I'm not sure exactly what more the science community should be doing. The information is out there, there are books, there are websites --- should they also be going round knocking on doors asking: "Have you heard the good news about genetics?"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
|
It's great that you're showing an interest but why now and why genetics? I'm assuming you're here on this particular forum because it's related to a religious question?
Genetics and the sciences and technologies that support its study are very, very new - we're only just beginning to know anything about it really. But already it's absurdly complicated; unless you're exteremely bright and very determined, you're extremely unlikely to get to a position where you can argue cogently about it with someone who actually KNOWS. For me it's like big physics or advanced mathematic, there comes a point very early on when you simply have to accept what you are being told by those that have spent their lives working in the field and read about it in the popularising literature. What astounds me is that people with absolutely no knowledge of the subject come here and tell us it's wrong. They need to aquire a little humility. (I'm not referring to you here - there's nothing wrong with asking questions.) If you're looking for a good, readable, book on evolution generally, I'd recommend Steve Jone's Almost like a whale. it's a re-write of Darwin's Origin of Species using up to date examples - including genetics, which Darwin had no idea about.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
For me it's like big physics or advanced mathematic, there comes a point very early on when you simply have to accept what you are being told by those that have spent their lives working in the field and read about it in the popularising literature. I don't think it's remotely like that. It's not like that because the nuts and bolts of the subject aren't in fact abstruse mathematical concepts, but something much more graspable by intuition; the underlying bits and pieces are just normal objects only smaller, and the abstraction in the subject actually makes it simpler, since it involves saying things like: "OK, ignore the biochemistry of how a ribosome works, and let's think about what it does." Instead of abstracting to an four-dimensional integral of a tensor expression or whatever, it's more like abstracting the way a car works by saying: "Without going into details, let's just say the engine produces rotary motion and leave it at that for the moment." That it's complicated is true, but it's the sort of complexity we can cope with, because it's only complicated because there are a lot of processes to be taken into account. In that sense it's complicated, but that doesn't really make it difficult. It's like my "introduction to geology" thread. What makes geology complicated is that there are lots of geological processes. Most of them are fairly easy to understand. Wind transports sand. Glaciers drop rocks when they melt. Coccoliths sink. And so on.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bcoop Junior Member (Idle past 4286 days) Posts: 27 From: Maine Joined:
|
I'm not sure exactly what more the science community should be doing. The information is out there, there are books, there are websites --- should they also be going round knocking on doors asking: "Have you heard the good news about genetics?"
One thing "science" can do is to represent their own beliefs honestly and not represent everything they believe as "science". This is true regardless of your point of view on origins. I hear people on both sides talk about what the position of "science" is, and many times I think that anything they personally believe is presented as science. When they do this they diminish the credibility of the science community as a whole, and the public gets skeptical.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bcoop Junior Member (Idle past 4286 days) Posts: 27 From: Maine Joined: |
It's great that you're showing an interest but why now and why genetics? I'm assuming you're here on this particular forum because it's related to a religious question?
I have a life-long interest in understanding what is going on around me. I am a religious person and my personal belief includes the idea that there is a Creator. I believe the study of science is also a study of the Creator. True Science is a definitive statement by the Creator. There is a verse where God is asked his name and he answers I AM. Science also makes the same statement. If I asked science who are you ? it might answer IT IS. Science that is irrefutable just IS and that is what I want to know about. As far as this forum is concerned I was really looking for a forum of science minded people who would answer my questions from a strictly science context. I am not looking for Spiritual answers to scientific questions.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
You're correct of course - genetics is not as intellectually impossible as I find big physics; someone (probably a physicist) said that all sciences apart from physics is just stamp collecting. And the general idea of evolution is startlingly simple and totally understandable to those who don't instantly reject it for religious reasons. You can even now prove it to yourself by simply visiting a good museum.
But I get very lost, very quickly in the intricacies of molecular biology which is where this stuff inevitably takes you and where the big new stuff is happening. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
evolutionwanderer Junior Member (Idle past 4286 days) Posts: 1 Joined: |
I have been debating a friend on evolution and he referred me to this video and it has been eating at me... can someone please refute this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-BFEhkIujA
{The video concerns Mike Huckabee's position on creation/evolution. We need to find a better place for this. Perhaps someone could bump an appropriate topic. - Adminnemooseus} Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner etc.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Since that thread has now been closed for good reason, are you going to move evolutionwanderer's misplaced message to somewhere else? Or have him propose a new topic on it?
Edited by dwise1, : subtitle
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
I think he was a drive-by, and probably won't be back. I also think that the video content was minor old news. I'm going to let the thing die.
No replies to this message in this topic. If one must reply, please use PM or the "Whine List" topic. AdminnemooseusOr something like that.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024