Summations Only

What kind of taxes do you pay? Isn't your business contributing to the infrastructure? I don't think that anybody thinks that they could have built their business without any infrastructure. That's why I don't get what he's talking about. No, but the sidewalk, lemonade, and wood existed regardless of any business venture they went on, and everybody has access to those already. Its the fact that they were smart and worked hard that made their business. From Message 171:

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Its clear to me that the "that" he was referring to was the infrastructure, i.e. the roads and bridges, and not the business itself.

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At about 0:46 in that video I linked to, he says it a little differently than the quote I found:"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that."He stumbles right after "business"... he actually says: "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business... that, you didn’t build that."He was clearly refering to building the roads and bridges.

Okay, so then maybe we can move on to the actual source of my confusion and the point I was making?

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I agree that we all rely on the infrastructure that the government provides. But we all do that regardless of whether or not we've created a successful business. And businesses pay their far share of taxes towards building that infrastructure. So, its not the infrastructure that builds the business, somebody has to go out and do the work. And the businesses that are successful come from people who are smart and/or work hard.

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But I don't see how the fact that infrastructure was used means that it wasn't the smartness and hard work of the person who built the business that allowed the business to emerge.

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And I don't see anyone claiming that they built their business without any help from anybody else and without using any of the infrastructure.

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So what is Obama even talking about?

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That and having sidewalks, lemonade, and wood, among other things. Maybe not; but there are plenty of people who think they don't have to credit infrastructure's contribution to their business.Cognitive dissonance that is.

The girls down the street had those exact same things. How come they don't have a successful business too?Everybody has those things, its when smart people work hard that businesses emerge. I don't think so. We all pay taxes towards those things.

I don't get it. A large amount of Democrats ended up feeling let down and duped by Obama, stating that he's essentially Bush the Sequel.Four years ago you loathed the man. Why the change?

No one is disagreeing that hard working people create great businesses. What Obama was pointing out is that they would not have that business if it were not for the infrastructure that government has built. Government supplies the tools that people need to make a strong businesses. Well, those of us who don't have overseas tax shelters.

That's because a large amount of democrats expected miracles.I'm talking from the perspective of (1) an ex-cop, (2) a researcher, (3) an engineer, and (4) a business owner. From my experiences in life, one single man can't do miracles, especially when congress is run by the part of NO. I watch a lot of news, speeches, etc. I pay attention to people's words when they talk. You can say I've fallen in love with Obama. I see a lot of genuineness in him.On the other hand, I am convinced Romney is a functional sociopath. He made hundreds of millions by ruining thousands of people's lives. He doesn't remember leading a gang of boys to assault a gay kid in school, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. By the way, rapists also often don't remember their victims. That's why victims often are surprised when their rapists don't recognize them in court.I know, I know, you can say it's all politics. And I agree. We may joke all day about how all politicians are liars and all of that, but in the end we gotta use the best evidence we have and evaluate our options. Unlike tea partiers who make up bullshit about Obama (anti-christ, secret muslim agent, communist, etc.), I have real reasons to believe Romney is a functional sociopath.

All businesses contribute to the infrastructure... except Bain Capital. That company took away from the infrastructure. Well, it's one of those things that are obvious once you pointed it out. But before you pointed it out, most people wouldn't even think about it.Try to think of it like this. Can you think of anyone who will ever deny that we owe algebra to the arabs? How often does any of us think back to attribute that entire field of mathematics to the arabic culture?Or look at how we breathe. It's called air. Yet, most people don't even give it a second thought on most days. Why do some teachers mention it every once in a while?Facebook was a great idea that made someone very rich. But would it have worked back in the 1950s? At some point, people need to be reminded that it was the government that funded and built the internet, and the bill that made that possible was called the Gore Bill.I still don't see what you're arguing here. Obama reminded people that all businesses owe something or other to the American infrastructure, a teacher somewhere in the past, a helping hand, etc. What the hell is wrong with that? Did you actually watch that segment? The fox people and those girls made it sound like Obama said they didn't build that business. Are you trying to defend liars?

That you can't say "I did it all by myself" and shirk your responsibility to the common good. No, they're implying that they got theirs, Jack, so everybody else can fuck off and die.I mean, you've got conservative economists like Greg Mankiw literally making the case that taxing people, especially the successful, is flat-out immoral. (A), you've got to tax the well-off because that's who has money, and (B) the declining marginal utility of money makes a strong mathematical case that taxing people who have much is a lot more effective (and moral) than otherwise, because the well-off get much less use out of every marginal dollar. But to even have the debate on those terms ignores the fact that the well-off owe us for their success, due to the enormous social contribution to the infrastructure that made that success possible.

Miracles, or just owning up to the campaign promises? Don't write checks your butt can't cash, as they say.Obameter: Campaign Promises that are Promise Broken | PolitiFactBut that's not why they're pissed. He's a Nobel Peace Prize recipient and is every bit the warlord GWB was. That's odd, because for the exact same reasons, I see him as nothing more than a sycophant who is ONLY in his position on account of his orations. Well, no argument from me that Romney is a huge doucher, but Romney and Obama are essentially the same people from a political point of view.I just don't understand what happened. If I recall, I remember you not caring very much for him citing that you both were from Illinois and knew he was shady, for lack of a better term.

I looked through that list, and every single thing on that list requires congressional approval. I'm sure Obama is very pleased knowing you think he's the absolute dictator of this country, because that's the only way he could impliment those things without congressional approval. You kidding? So, Obama was responsible for... other people choosing him for the Nobel Peace Prize?So, if I were to declare you the most homosexual man on Earth, would it be fair for you to be gang raped by whole gangs of homosexuals? After all, they could just say you won the title for being the most homosexual man on the planet. I know. Like I said, Obama won me over. I'm not going to try to convince you since this is a personal thing. May be Obama had some kind of voodoo thing that changed my mind about him.But I know what you mean. Most of my liberal friends are saying they think Obama failed big time as a president. Again, I see the problem here as having too much expectations in the first place. Back when I still was not happy that Obama won the nomination, I already knew that he couldn't work miracles. I was realistic then, and I'm realistic now. The only thing that's changed is my personal attitude about him.

Hi all, It's not just the infrastructure, it is also the broad cultural\social atmosphere that is protected by the military and what is allowed by regulations governing the interactions with other nations.Those girls would not have had the same experience building a lemonade stand in Syria for instance.The US government provides and protects an ecology in which business can thrive. Without the US government there would be no US economy.This is a massive annual investment in business, and the US government deserves a dividend or a fair share of the resulting profits just as much as any investor does (including workers).also see
The Daily Show with Trevor Noah - Season 27 - TV Series | Comedy Central US
and
The Daily Show with Trevor Noah - Season 27 - TV Series | Comedy Central USEnjoyEdited by RAZD, : daily show links

Doesn't that sound like a reasonable analogy, you guys? It starts to get very sad when you start to wonder, what then can be done? Why vote? Why pretend it matters? The only thing right now that makes any sense is the Occupy movements.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

I think it is. People have been criticizing Obama for winning the Nobel Peace Prize. This came as a surprise to Obama as much as everyone else. What about accepting it, you ask?Let's look at his 2 choices.(1) Not accepting the prize, which is practically the same thing as telling the Nobel committee to fuck off.(2) Accepting the prize and piss off conservative liars.He did the only thing he could do. He accepted the prize, give a speech on how he was humbled, and donated the money to charity.Unless you could think of a better way to handle it, shut the hell up. You serious?

I just felt your analogy was a bit off the wall. An organization of citizens working together to better the conditions for ourselves, started by us for us? Yeah I think that's better than relying on a president.Globally, the occupy movements have been not only very effective, but peaceful for the most part and aggressive when they had to be. They've been a demonstration of the little guy uniting to go up against the big government (and without guns.)I'd say that's the best hope so far. Citizens working together to get what they need and deserve.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.