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Author Topic:   The Second Amendment
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 3 of 51 (669771)
08-02-2012 2:39 PM


Putting the Constitution in context.
Often we forget that the US Constitution was not a product of 1776 but rather a second attempt a designing what would become the United States of America.
I'm really surprised how often I talk to people who seem totally unaware that the Constitution was revisionist in origin and designed to address the failures of the "Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union" that preceded it.
The original Articles of Confederation were drafted during the Second Continental Congress as one leg of three separate and distinct "Nation Building" efforts; steps necessary if the thirteen colonies were to ever be recognized as anything more than rebels under a legitimate Monarch. The three legs were a Declaration of Independence, a Model Treaty that would set standards of conduct in trade and relationships with other nations and the Articles of Confederation that established a working plan for a unified Federal Government.
Under the Articles almost all powers remained in the hands of the individual States except those powers specifically granted to the Congress. Only Congress could make treaties and agreements with other Nations, resolve disputes between States, Declare and make war (but there was no provision for taxation to pay for any of those). There was no Presidency, no Judiciary.
The new United States was pretty evenly divided between those who favored a strong Federal Government and those who favored a weak Federal Government but strong State Governments.
Some provisions that were included were that the new Congress of the Confederation would assume all debts and liabilities from the War and that only Congress could make or ratify any Treaties. Since the Congress had no power to raise any money except ask for the individual States to do so, or even force the members of the Congress to come meet and vote on issues, things pretty much stopped. Even the official end to the war (the Treaty of Paris) could not be signed because the members of Congress had returned home and there was no way to get them to come back.
It was that total failure under the Articles of "Confederation and Perpetual Union" that lead to the creation of a whole new government and Constitution.
The new Constitution (and the first ten amendments to that Constitution) was born during that period. There was still widespread dislike of any strong central government or the idea of any standing army. The Second Amendment reflects that position and belief that armaments should be in the hands of the individual people and not in any central government, State or Federal.
Edited by jar, : appalin grammur
Edited by jar, : rally appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2012 12:49 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 5 of 51 (669775)
08-02-2012 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by dronestar
08-02-2012 3:24 PM


Also, american rights and liberties have been greatly eroded by the feds since 1700 (except for individual gun rights, ironically), so the second amendment wasn't even successful.
That's not quite right.
Gun rights are limited in the USA but at the State and Local level. For example the gun laws in New York or California are quite different than in Georgia or Arizona and the laws in New York City different than New York State.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by dronestar, posted 08-02-2012 3:24 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by dronestar, posted 08-02-2012 3:38 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 51 (669781)
08-02-2012 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by dronestar
08-02-2012 3:38 PM


Yup, Feds too.
Yes, there is also Federal Gun Laws but they mostly deal with the commerce side; with registering who can sell a gun and what is legal to sell. For example the Tax stamp that must be purchased to buy a fully automatic weapon and the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tax and Firearms (BATF) handles that regulation.
There is also supposed to be a Federal Registry of purchases, felons and those prohibited from buying a handgun, but it's relatively new and very incomplete.
But the patchwork of laws and regulations in the US are as varied as all other laws and regulations here. What is legal in one State may well be illegal in another and even in one State gun laws vary from county to county and even city to city within a particular county.
Remember, the US does not even have any registry or database of who is a US Citizen.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 6 by dronestar, posted 08-02-2012 3:38 PM dronestar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 51 (669790)
08-02-2012 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by nwr
08-02-2012 10:09 PM


The real problem is not the 2nd amendment. It is the gun culture in America.
I'm not sure that the gun culture is much more than another reflection of general US culture and the abdication of personal responsibility common to today's US culture.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by nwr, posted 08-02-2012 10:09 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by nwr, posted 08-03-2012 12:05 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 50 of 51 (883715)
01-08-2021 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by dronestar
01-08-2021 12:23 AM


Re: Who Do We Need to Protect Democracy From?
Fortunately there are also a VERY large liberal/progressive group that are also gun owners.
Speaking of guns, this lock down/hibernation period has let me give SPA Days to many of my less often used firearms. It's been fun.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by dronestar, posted 01-08-2021 12:23 AM dronestar has not replied

  
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