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Author Topic:   Why would God write a book of lies and why would you worship such a being?
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3483 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


(1)
Message 8 of 86 (670018)
08-08-2012 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by foreveryoung
08-07-2012 11:38 PM


Wisdom in Fiction
quote:
I have seen a few Christians claim that many of what appears to be historical documents in the bible, actually did not occur at all. If the bible is book that is littered with stories that are pure fiction but that are conveyed in such a way to appear as legitimate, why would you trust anything else that it had to say?
Storytelling through the ages wasn't just a means of entertainment. From what I can tell it was also a way of passing on information and wisdom.
The story may not be a true event, but the lesson is real. The parables that Jesus told weren't real events. They were designed to teach a lesson.
If one understands whether a writing is fiction or historical, then one trusts the information as is appropriate for the style of writing.
One doesn't look for a moral in an historical document and one doesn't usually look for historical facts in a fairy tale although fair tales can give us a view of the culture of the time.
quote:
f you say some of it is true, is it only because it already agrees with you have decided for yourself to be true?
Hopefully what we understand to be factual can be verified by sources outside the writing.
Ultimately we have to understand the writing techniques used by the writers to understand what the writers were telling their audience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by foreveryoung, posted 08-07-2012 11:38 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3483 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 44 of 86 (670140)
08-09-2012 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by foreveryoung
08-08-2012 9:53 PM


Holy Scriptures
Until the scrolls were written, there were no Holy Scriptures (writings); but people worshiped God.
The story of Abraham shows us that people believed in God before anything was written in a scroll. They didn't rely on a book to tell them what to do or believe.
Since Judaism is the foundation of early Christianity, I look to Jewish History for more insight. From Jewish history we learn that the Jews had the written law and an oral law.
Storytelling came before writing.
Storytelling and Spirituality in Judaism
Hasidim praised and promoted storytelling because they appreciated its inspirational power. A person hearing a religious teaching may be impressed by its truth, but a tale about someone actually fulfilling the teaching can motivate the listener to action.
Fiction can bring a teaching to life. It isn't a lie, it gives people a means to visualize.
That's why I have no problem with fiction in the Bible. I try to understand what the author was trying to impart to his audience.
Even when the NT writers quote from a fictional writing, I try to understand the point the writer is making to his audience. That's the take away.
I also try to understand the literary devices employed by the writers, such as metaphors and hyperbole. These don't translate into lies, just creative ways to make a point and make the info more memorable.
Since people believed in God before the existence of Holy Scriptures, I see no problem with still believing in God even with the knowledge that the Holy Scriptures contain storytelling.
Now I do have a problem with dogma and tradition that claim to be based on what the Biblical writers were saying or teaching and it isn't. In my opinion, that is misleading.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by foreveryoung, posted 08-08-2012 9:53 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3483 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


(4)
Message 46 of 86 (670148)
08-09-2012 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by foreveryoung
08-09-2012 8:57 AM


Job
quote:
Job was not crazy for trusting God.
Exactly! Even though Job is a fictional story the basic take away is that bad things can happen to good people due to no fault of their own. IOW, they aren't being punished by God for committing a sin.
The story brings the issue to life. Gives people a visual to remember.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by foreveryoung, posted 08-09-2012 8:57 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3483 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


(2)
Message 63 of 86 (670838)
08-20-2012 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by foreveryoung
08-19-2012 9:50 PM


Re: On Israel
quote:
If the exodus was pure fiction, then there was no state of Israel for God to condemn. You just defeated your ownself.
As Arach pointed out in Message 54, per the Bible, Israel was formed from Jacob and his twelve sons. (Genesis 35:9-13)
Even if the stories in Genesis are fiction or partial fiction, there are books in the Bible that refer to books outside the Bible that supposedly may have been more historical in nature.
Non-canonical books referenced in the Bible
The Chronicles of the Kings of Israel (lost/missing) and Chronicles of the Kings of Judah ("2 Chronicles" in the Christian Old Testament or "Divrei Hayamim II" in the Hebrew Tanakh) are mentioned in the Books of Kings (1 Kings 14:19, 14:29). They are said to tell of events during the reigns of Kings Jeroboam of Israel and Rehoboam of Judah, respectively. The Chronicles of the Kings of Israel is again mentioned in 1 Kings 16:20 regarding King Zimri, and many other times throughout 1 and 2 Kings.
Books of Kings
In brief outline the sources of the books appear to have been these: I Kings i. and ii. are extracted bodily from an early court history of David's private life, which is largely used in II Sam. ix.-xx. The editor (Rd) has added notes at ii. 2-4 and 10-12. For the reign of Solomon the source is professedly"the book of the acts of Solomon" (xi. 41); but other sources were employed, ...
Books of Chronicles
(1) An earlier historical work cited as: "The Book of the Kings of Judah and Israel" (II Chron. xvi. 11, xxv. 26, xxviii. 26); "The Book of the Kings of Israel and Judah" (ib. xxvii. 7, xxxv. 26); "The Acts of the Kings of Israel" (ib. xxxiii. 18); and perhaps also as "The Midrash of the Book of Kings" (ib. xxiv. 27).
IMO, the Exodus story is a creative way to relate how the tribes came to be where they were. If the story hadn't been written, the tribes would still have been where they were and probably were there before it was written.
Like I pointed out in Message 44, storytelling has a purpose and was very important in ancient times. Storytelling was a creative way to make a point and make the info more memorable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by foreveryoung, posted 08-19-2012 9:50 PM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by bluescat48, posted 09-11-2012 12:45 PM purpledawn has not replied
 Message 67 by arachnophilia, posted 09-12-2012 10:02 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
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