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Author
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Topic: Evolution is True Because Life Needs It
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 47 of 188 (652624)
02-15-2012 5:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 45 by Portillo
02-15-2012 4:19 AM
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Portillo writes: Can you give me an example of how small changes can turn a shrew into a human?
Sure. I will not list the all the hundreds of thousands of small changes (because that would take weeks), but here is a summary... Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly less hair. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly larger body. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly longer limbs. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly less twitchy nose. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. Slightly larger brain. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Edited by Panda, : Corrected incorrect quote source. Sorry PD.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 4:19 AM | | Portillo has not replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 48 of 188 (652627)
02-15-2012 6:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 45 by Portillo
02-15-2012 4:19 AM
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Portillo writes: Can you give me an example of how small changes can turn a shrew into a human?
Do you accept that this:
evolved into this:
?
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 4:19 AM | | Portillo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 54 by Portillo, posted 02-17-2012 10:17 PM | | Panda has replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 55 of 188 (653092)
02-17-2012 10:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 54 by Portillo
02-17-2012 10:17 PM
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Portillo writes: Thats variation within a fundamentally stable species. Common examples of variation within species includes dog breeding, pigeon breeding, orchid breeding and rose cultivation. This type of change is often extrapolated to explain a process capable of creating dogs, pigeons and plants in the first place.
But do you accept that wolves evolved into chihuahuas? And was my list of "how small changes can turn a shrew into a human" detailed enough? Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by Portillo, posted 02-17-2012 10:17 PM | | Portillo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 58 by Portillo, posted 02-17-2012 11:51 PM | | Panda has replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 59 of 188 (653108)
02-18-2012 5:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 58 by Portillo
02-17-2012 11:51 PM
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Next question...
Portillo writes: Yes. Through wolves came domestic dogs and with natural selection, selective breeding, and artificial selection, we get a wide variety of dogs, both wild and domestic.
Ok, you accept that some major physical changes can happen during evolution. e.g. from large to small, from hairy to hairless. Next question... Do you accept that this: could evolve into this:
? (p.s. This is not some kind of 'Gotcha' where I make you say a word and then jump on you for saying it. It is simply better for you to take your own steps towards the answer than have me push the answer towards you.) Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 58 by Portillo, posted 02-17-2012 11:51 PM | | Portillo has not replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 63 of 188 (653328)
02-20-2012 5:48 AM
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Reply to: Message 58 by Portillo
02-17-2012 11:51 PM
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Prompt for Portillo...
As this seems to have been forgotten...
Portillo writes: Yes. Through wolves came domestic dogs and with natural selection, selective breeding, and artificial selection, we get a wide variety of dogs, both wild and domestic.
Ok, you accept that some major physical changes can happen during evolution. e.g. from large to small, from hairy to hairless. Next question... Do you accept that this: could evolve into this:
?
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 58 by Portillo, posted 02-17-2012 11:51 PM | | Portillo has replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 65 of 188 (653333)
02-20-2012 6:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 64 by Portillo
02-20-2012 6:03 AM
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Re: Prompt for Portillo...
Portillo writes: Could you identify the animals for me. It looks like a cat and a fox?
Correct.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by Portillo, posted 02-20-2012 6:03 AM | | Portillo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 66 by Portillo, posted 02-20-2012 6:59 AM | | Panda has seen this message but not replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 108 of 188 (653549)
02-22-2012 12:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 102 by Portillo
02-21-2012 11:25 PM
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Re: Prompt for Portillo...
Hi Portillo. Thanks for the reply, but it doesn't seem to address my question. There are various things in it we could discuss, but I was trying to keep our discussion focussed. So... Do you accept that this: could evolve into this:
?
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by Portillo, posted 02-21-2012 11:25 PM | | Portillo has replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 118 of 188 (653656)
02-23-2012 11:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 102 by Portillo
02-21-2012 11:25 PM
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Re: Prompt for Portillo...
I am thinking that my previous reply could possibly be construed as sarcastic or something. So I thought I would explicitly state that it was not meant in a derogatory (or whatever) sense. I truly see no clear answer to my question in your reply. For example - you do not mention cats at all. And looking at your summary sentence:
Portillo writes: We dont observe life arising from non-life, evolving into multicellular life, evolving into fish, evolving into amphibians, evolving into reptiles, evolving into birds, evolving into mammals, evolving into humans. Nor will ever. "We dont observe life arising from non-life" - 'non-life' to 'life': clearly not related to a cat evolving into a fox. "evolving into multicellular life" - 'single-cell'(?) life into multicellular life: clearly not related to a cat evolving into a fox. I am unsure of what the rest of your sentence means as it contradicts your previous statements. To slightly paraphrase: "We dont observe multicellular life ... evolving into mammals" This conflicts with your previous statement that Wolves (multicellular life) evolved into Chihuahuas (mammals). So, to summarise: I found your reply confusing, contradictory and unconnected to cats evolving into foxes. I'll ask again... Do you accept that this: could evolve into this:
?
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by Portillo, posted 02-21-2012 11:25 PM | | Portillo has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 121 by Chuck77, posted 02-25-2012 6:55 AM | | Panda has replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 120 of 188 (653873)
02-25-2012 4:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 102 by Portillo
02-21-2012 11:25 PM
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Re: Prompt for Portillo...
Still no answer. Is there some aspect of my question that you are having trouble understanding or is there some aspect of your answer that you are having trouble expressing?
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by Portillo, posted 02-21-2012 11:25 PM | | Portillo has not replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 124 of 188 (653923)
02-25-2012 2:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 121 by Chuck77
02-25-2012 6:55 AM
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Dogs is dogs
And to ask you the same initial question I asked Portillo... Do you accept that this:
evolved into this:
?
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 121 by Chuck77, posted 02-25-2012 6:55 AM | | Chuck77 has not replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 127 of 188 (657932)
04-01-2012 6:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 125 by Portillo
04-01-2012 12:47 AM
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Re: Prompt for Portillo...
Portillo writes: Im not sure about those specific examples, but if a fox is part of the canine family and the cat is part of the feline family, then the answer is no.
But could a cat evolve into an animal that looks exactly like a fox?
Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 125 by Portillo, posted 04-01-2012 12:47 AM | | Portillo has not replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Re: Evolution problem
Dr. A writes: By the way, what is it about you guys and the phrase: "random chance"? Really, is there some sort of chance that isn't random? Would there be such a thing as "non-random chance"? Why do you even say stuff like this? I also wonder if they would deny winning the lottery because the odds of winning are so small. "I think you boys are trying to tell me that I won the lottery through random chance. *rips up the ticket*"
"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 170 of 188 (671042)
08-21-2012 7:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 142 by barnes
08-21-2012 12:11 PM
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Re: Evolution problem
barnes writes: I buy a lottery ticket, it wins. What might be construed as random chance; I pick up a lottery ticket from the side walk and it is a winner. Yes they are both chance one being a sought after chance and the other being a what, greater chance without a preconceived end result.
So, you agree that even the unlikely event of finding a winning lottery ticket is not only based on chance but you also agree that it is possible. But, if you followed your own argument against the complexity of life, you would still say: "I think you boys are trying to tell me that I won the lottery through random chance. *rips up the ticket*"
barnes writes: Please enlighten me that I might not make the same mistake.
Ask a question and I will try.
"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 142 by barnes, posted 08-21-2012 12:11 PM | | barnes has not replied |
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