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Author Topic:   2004 Summer Olympics
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 106 of 109 (671587)
08-27-2012 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by dronestar
08-27-2012 4:38 PM


Re: a waste of money
Drone writes:
As a British citizen, were the costs, as identified in my original post (I understand you didn't accept them all), of hosting the 2012 olympics worth it? I am curious, this question is not just for Mod.
Hmmm. Overall - Given the current state of the economy and whatnot - Probably not.
Many (politicians in particular) talk about the huge amount of income that will occur as an indirect result of the Olympics. They argue it was a giant advertisement "to invest in Britain" etc. etc. etc. Past Olympics don't justify this as far as I can see and I am deeply skeptical about such claims.
But That isn't to say that the whole thing was a complete waste of money. Just that, all things considered, it isn't "worth" the end cost in my view. But I wouldn't cancel the Olympics.
I think you should read some Simon Jenkins. You and he seem to have many views in common.
For example....
Simon Jenkins writes:
"London will not recover the cost of the Olympics and may as well forget it. Having spent the money we should at least lie back and enjoy it. But we should stop pretending. The real victims of London's mind-numbing mendacity will be the poor and hapless citizens of Rio in 2016. They really cannot afford it."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by dronestar, posted 08-27-2012 4:38 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by dronestar, posted 08-28-2012 4:24 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 107 of 109 (671594)
08-27-2012 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by dronestar
08-27-2012 4:38 PM


Re: a waste of money
Since I still don't know your stance about my Dow corporation point, I don't know why you think you've finally addressed it with this:
From my perspective you raised a point. It was a point that I have a complicated series of reactions to, but very little in the way of being particularly informed about the issues I feel I would need to be. So I decided not to comment.
Huh?
That was me explaining why I didn't address it, not me claiming to be finally addressing it.
Just one article wouldn't change or educate too many minds. And I doubt sponsors, whom many have factories in China, would have been keen on that type of negative reporting during the China olympics.
That one article (which was actually two articles in different news outlets based on one report) wasn't the only time the British media mentioned it, it was just the first one(s) I found with a few strokes of google.
8 August 2008
8 August 2008
6 August 2008
6 August 2008
5 August 2008
4 August 2008 (picture 5)
4 August 2008
29 August 2008
29 August 2008
23 August 2008
22 August 2008
20 August 2008
20 August 2008
15 August 2008
14 August 2008
14 August 2008
Then how about pressuring the public to put war-criminal Tony Blair in jail? If not, as a resident I am sure you could use the awesome advertising potential of the olympics to improve some inequity of England, take your pick, I don't think you've achieved Xanadu quite yet.
Who would be putting on this pressure, and how would we relate the Olympics to the issue of Tony Blair? What kind of thing were you imagining when you were thinking of using advertising potential to improve some inequity? Who would pay for that use of advertising potential (or the loss of earnings from selling that advertising space?)
You may have not fully read your example of positive effects:
I read it, I don't feel it affects what I was saying to any significant degree. I wasn't claiming the benefits were equitable.
Why should it be mandated? The publicly funded BBC is the supposed guardian of the people. I should think they would welcome the opportunity to educate the masses.
Well, I'm thinking if we're trying to improve the way the Olympics operate, we can't just rely on the host nation having state television that can tell exactly what the government will do over the next 10 years as part of their Olympic preparations.
I mean, we might argue that would be nice, preferable even. But if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.
Then perhaps it is an exceptionally bad gamble to make for the future when such a large sum of money is required.
An insignificant gamble compared to the ones we took with the banks, though right? And of course, we still don't know what the balance will turn out to be. We can still make quite a bit of money back. I have no idea what the ticket sales revenue was even. Nevertheless - this argument applies to every country at all times, and logically leads to the cancellation of the Olympics (which is what will happen if no nation takes the bad gamble). Something you want us to be clear you are not advocating.
Ok, can I have a simple Yes or No conclusion? As a British citizen, were the costs, as identified in my original post (I understand you didn't accept them all), of hosting the 2012 olympics worth it?
It's too early to tell. I would wager it wasn't worth it by any measure I can think of.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by dronestar, posted 08-27-2012 4:38 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by dronestar, posted 08-28-2012 4:16 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 108 of 109 (671636)
08-28-2012 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Modulous
08-27-2012 6:54 PM


Re: a waste of money
Thanks for the links to the Chinese negative press. I opened and read each one (some were repeated). Unfortunately, it would seem that the global media would need to do much, much, much more than just brief articles alleging China's human rights violations. It would need to tie in the abuse to how it is accepted in their own nation. For example, the reporting should prompt americans to ask their politicians why China has most favored nation status?
Mod writes:
Who would be putting on this pressure, and how would we relate the Olympics to the issue of Tony Blair? What kind of thing were you imagining when you were thinking of using advertising potential to improve some inequity? Who would pay for that use of advertising potential (or the loss of earnings from selling that advertising space?)
Again, the corporate media would simply need to do the heavy lifting of just presenting the full and accurate facts. An informed public is usually an ethical public. Unfortunately, the government, the media, and big business are all team members who don't put the public's best interests first. I think the first step of the 99% Movement was educating the masses of this reality. I am doubting that the first step has been completed yet.
Mod writes:
Nevertheless - this argument applies to every country at all times, and logically leads to the cancellation of the Olympics (which is what will happen if no nation takes the bad gamble). Something you want us to be clear you are not advocating.
I'm merely advocating smaller risks (less luxurious olympics) so the consequences might be more bearable.
Mod writes:
It's too early to tell. I would wager it wasn't worth it by any measure I can think of.
Thanks for the discussion and your final answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Modulous, posted 08-27-2012 6:54 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 109 of 109 (671637)
08-28-2012 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Straggler
08-27-2012 5:49 PM


Re: a waste of money
Thanks for alerting me to Simon Jenkins. He is now bookmarked with my daily readings of Znet. I particularly liked what he uncovered in a report about the olympics:
quote:
diverting scarce resources from more productive uses translates into slower rates of economic growth
I wish the world, in particular the countries in a recession or worse, would take note.
STRAG writes:
Overall - Given the current state of the economy and whatnot - Probably not.
I wish more people responded to my query, but thanks for answering.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Straggler, posted 08-27-2012 5:49 PM Straggler has not replied

  
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