Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9073 total)
68 online now:
AZPaul3, PaulK (2 members, 66 visitors)
Newest Member: MidwestPaul
Post Volume: Total: 893,317 Year: 4,429/6,534 Month: 643/900 Week: 167/182 Day: 0/47 Hour: 0/0

Announcements: Security Update Released


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evidence found for gravity waves
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 1 of 8 (671724)
08-29-2012 10:16 PM


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19408363

quote:
Researchers have spotted visible-light evidence for one of astronomy's most elusive targets - gravity waves - in the orbit of a pair of dead stars.

Until now, these ripples in space-time, first predicted by Einstein, have only been inferred from radio-wave sources.

But a change in the orbits of two white dwarf stars orbiting one another 3,000 light-years away is further proof of the waves that can literally be seen.

A study to be reported in Astrophysical Journal Letters describes the pair.

Gravitational waves were a significant part of Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity, which viewed space itself as a malleable construct, and the gravity of massive objects as a force that could effectively warp it.

Catching sight of an actual gravity wave, however, is a tricky business; their effects are far too small to be measured with Earth-bound experiments.

But the wider Universe provides a laboratory in which the indirect effects of gravity waves can be measured.


more at the link!

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Restore lost "R" at beginning and add quote box.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Peeta Mellark, posted 08-29-2012 11:26 PM ramoss has taken no action

  
Peeta Mellark
Junior Member (Idle past 3461 days)
Posts: 16
Joined: 08-29-2012


Message 2 of 8 (671730)
08-29-2012 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ramoss
08-29-2012 10:16 PM


gravity waves
Was the evidence for these gravity waves found by a black hole (or other rapidly rotating heavenly body)?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ramoss, posted 08-29-2012 10:16 PM ramoss has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by hooah212002, posted 08-30-2012 12:45 AM Peeta Mellark has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 41 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 3 of 8 (671736)
08-30-2012 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Peeta Mellark
08-29-2012 11:26 PM


Re: gravity waves
Yes. White Dwarf Stars rotate relatively rapid.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Peeta Mellark, posted 08-29-2012 11:26 PM Peeta Mellark has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Peeta Mellark, posted 08-30-2012 11:52 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Peeta Mellark
Junior Member (Idle past 3461 days)
Posts: 16
Joined: 08-29-2012


Message 4 of 8 (671864)
08-30-2012 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by hooah212002
08-30-2012 12:45 AM


Re: gravity waves
Well then isn't it obvious that due to the size and density of the star, gravity waves would form.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by hooah212002, posted 08-30-2012 12:45 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by hooah212002, posted 08-31-2012 12:23 AM Peeta Mellark has taken no action
 Message 6 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2012 12:35 PM Peeta Mellark has taken no action
 Message 7 by cavediver, posted 08-31-2012 12:36 PM Peeta Mellark has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 41 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 5 of 8 (671867)
08-31-2012 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Peeta Mellark
08-30-2012 11:52 PM


Re: gravity waves
I think it would do you well to read the article, or even better, the paper associated because:

due to the size and density of the star,

It was found near two orbiting white dwarf stars, not a single star and:

Well then isn't it obvious

The key find here as that it is visual evidence, as opposed to inference from radio waves. I am unsure what the size of the stars has to do with this find. Could you explain?


"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Peeta Mellark, posted 08-30-2012 11:52 PM Peeta Mellark has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 8 (671921)
08-31-2012 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Peeta Mellark
08-30-2012 11:52 PM


Re: gravity waves
Well then isn't it obvious that due to the size and density of the star, gravity waves would form.

Just to avoid confusion, the gravity waves result from the orbit of the star about another star. Newtonian gravitational theory would predict a stable orbit, while GR predicts a decaying orbit with energy emitted from the system via gravity waves. A single isolated massive object could not be used in this experiment.

In a sense, yes it was obvious. General does predict gravity waves, and the theory is well verified. What's discussed here is confirmation that Einstein's theory is correct.

What makes the current experiment unique is that it is an experiment using visible light rather than radio waves to determine the variation in orbital periods. Also the results were gathered in a rather short period of time.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Peeta Mellark, posted 08-30-2012 11:52 PM Peeta Mellark has taken no action

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 2882 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(1)
Message 7 of 8 (671922)
08-31-2012 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Peeta Mellark
08-30-2012 11:52 PM


Re: gravity waves
Well then isn't it obvious that due to the size and density of the star, gravity waves would form.

No - gravitational waves cannot be formed from a symmetrical object, irrespective of its density and size. A varying gravitational quadrupole is required.

This is almost the same situation as electromagnetism, where a single static charge cannot generate electromagnetic waves - a varying dipole is required. The difference between em and gravity is accounted for by the vector nature of e/m vs the symmetric tensor nature of gravity - or equivalently the fact that e/m comes with +ve and -ve charges, where-as gravitational mass is purely +ve.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Peeta Mellark, posted 08-30-2012 11:52 PM Peeta Mellark has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Peeta Mellark, posted 08-31-2012 10:38 PM cavediver has taken no action

  
Peeta Mellark
Junior Member (Idle past 3461 days)
Posts: 16
Joined: 08-29-2012


Message 8 of 8 (671950)
08-31-2012 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by cavediver
08-31-2012 12:36 PM


Re: gravity waves
Well if you look near a black hole you can see waves when light gets caught in its gravitational pull. Thats what I thought he meant when I first saw the topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by cavediver, posted 08-31-2012 12:36 PM cavediver has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022