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Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: the bluegenes Challenge (bluegenes and RAZD only) | |||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bluegenes
Connect Guernica to the topic of the thread, and try to do so lucidly. I will ... when you answer the question What is Guernica? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2793 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
RAZD writes: What is Guernica? Google is your friend. If you want to bring something into the topic, then it's up to you to explain its relevance. Be lucid.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bluegenes
Google is your friend. Curiously, Google doesn't tell me what you think about it. You realize that issue avoidance is a symptom. What is Guernica? Enjoy. You don't know it's off topic until you answer and we can move on. Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2793 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
RAZD writes: Curiously, Google doesn't tell me what you think about it. And curiously, you haven't connected what I think about Guernica to the topic.
RAZD writes: You realize that issue avoidance is a symptom. Really? If you think it's a symptom of something bad, Doc, then stop avoiding the issue and present some positive evidence that supernatural beings exist outside our heads.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bluegenes,
One has to wonder why such sever and persistent avoidance reaction to a simple question, why the avoidance for so many posts: you reply by you don't answer the question ... and your replies are just (another) continuous attempts to shift the conversation to something (anything) else ... "What is Guernica" is a simple question, and should be easy to answer. Or is something blocking you from answering? Curious. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2793 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
RAZD writes: One has to wonder why such sever and persistent avoidance reaction to a simple question, why the avoidance for so many posts: you reply by you don't answer the question ... and your replies are just (another) continuous attempts to shift the conversation to something (anything) else ... One may have to wonder. But not this one. One of us is in a position to know. Curiously (and amusingly) it isn't actually very strange to try to shift the conversation from paintings to supernatural beings ("anything"?) on a thread which is about supernatural beings, not paintings. What you seem to be suggesting is that my views on a painting will have some impact on the question of whether or not SBs exist outside human minds. I know very well that, whatever I answer, the existential status of SBs will remain the same . While that demonstrates the irrelevance of the question, it's not the only reason I'm not answering.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bluegenes
While that demonstrates the irrelevance of the question, it's not the only reason I'm not answering. Another interesting way to rationalize to yourself .... ... while still avoiding the question. Let me know when you want to participate -- and answer the question -- rather that obfuscate. Enjoy. the question was first asked in Message 163 ... nothing but obfuscation since = not debate. Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2793 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
RAZD writes: Another interesting way to rationalize to yourself .... ... while still avoiding the question. Hi RAZD Another interesting way to rationalize to yourself..... ...while still avoiding the question of why we can't establish the existence of a single non-imaginary supernatural being.
RAZD writes: Let me know when you want to participate -- and answer the question -- rather that obfuscate.
Let me know when you wish to participate in an on topic discussion -- rather than obfuscate. You could start by explaining how my giving my views on a painting could change the existential state of supernatural beings. How would that happen?
RAZD writes: the question was first asked in Message 163 ... nothing but obfuscation since = not debate. We agree that there's obfuscation going on, we just disagree as to its source. BTW, thanks to the two people who have attempted to shed light on whatever there might be of substance to shed light on. I understand your confusion. Would anyone else like to speculate on the peanut gallery on how my views on a painting could possibly provide evidence for the existence of non-imaginary SBs? Edited by bluegenes, : peanut reference
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bluegenes
Would anyone else like to speculate on the peanut gallery on how my views on a painting could possibly provide evidence for the existence of non-imaginary SBs? Alternatively you could post wht Guernica means to you, task me with tying it in to the topic (easily done) and move forward based on real answers rather than speculation. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2793 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
RAZD writes: Alternatively you could post wht Guernica means to you, task me with tying it in to the topic (easily done) and move forward based on real answers rather than speculation. It would be easy for you to do it by example. For example: "If bluegenes says "x", that's positive evidence for the fairies, but if bluegenes says why "y", that's positive evidence for the elves." In reality, there's nothing I can say that will help you make a positive case for the existence of one of more non-imaginary SBs. And it's logically impossible that anything I can say will alter the existential state of SBs. As you were making up beliefs for me in an earlier post, I don't see why you can't do it again. So, fill in an "x" or "y" of your choice for bluegenes, and go onto step two.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bluegenes,
[qs]It would be easy for you to do it by example. ... [/q] Curiously, that would be me speculating about what you would say, and I would prefer the answer come from you.
... For example: "If bluegenes says "x", that's positive evidence for the fairies, but if bluegenes says why "y", that's positive evidence for the elves." But neither is the case, and that is because this is you speculating about what my argument involves rather than actually paying attention. What are you scared of? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2793 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
RAZD writes: Curiously, that would be me speculating about what you would say, and I would prefer the answer come from you. Think about it. As there's nothing I could say that could possibly make any difference to either the existential state of SBs or the evidential state of SBs, you can easily fill in the gap and go on to step two. Then you can do the same there if necessary, and go on to any further steps required, so you can easily make your point in one post.
RAZD writes: But neither is the case, and that is because this is you speculating about what my argument involves rather than actually paying attention. You haven't presented an argument to pay attention to. I know that, because I've been paying attention to your argument free posts.
RAZD writes: What are you scared of? As you can clearly make up emotions for me, and you made up both an opinion and a psychological state for me in an earlier post, why can't you just continue in the same vein? Meanwhile, I'm quite enjoying speculation. I'd like anyone reading the thread to be in a state of suspense. What will the unsupported claim actually be? I like a big build build up.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bluegenes,
Think about it. As there's nothing I could say that could possibly make any difference to either the existential state of SBs or the evidential state of SBs, you can easily fill in the gap and go on to step two. ... Curiously I don't expect what you have to say about Guernica to have anything to do with SBs.
You haven't presented an argument to pay attention to. Your failure in understanding my arguments from the first post on is why we are talking about Guernica. That you have dismissed my posts because of your attitudes is part of the problem with this so far non-debate. So can you respond to the question: what are your thought about Guernica, what does it mean to you? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2793 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
RAZD writes: Curiously I don't expect what you have to say about Guernica to have anything to do with SBs. So, you're asking me to do something off topic? Why?
RAZD writes: Your failure in understanding my arguments from the first post on is why we are talking about Guernica You mean from the beginning of the thread? No. The problem is rather that you don't appear to understand your arguments, or rather, how they relate to the topic. For example, I had to spend ages explaining to you why inductive scientific theories aren't deductive when you were criticizing the theory for not being deductive, a criticism that would have thrown out all scientific laws and theories. It's still not clear if you understand your mistake. Then, I had to point out that unsupported hypotheses can be made to contradict all theories, but without support they do not weaken them, but you kept on and on and on presenting such hypotheses, and it's still not clear whether or not you understand this point. So, the problem is not that I don't understand your "arguments" and how they relate to the subject, it's that you don't appear to, otherwise you'd stop making them.
RAZD writes: So can you respond to the question: what are your thought about Guernica, what does it mean to you? Currently, and in the context that it's been presented, my first thought is that I wish naive supernaturalists would not use human art works in attempts to reinforce their beliefs and flatter their desires.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bluegenes,
You still don't get it, or are willfully ignoring it.
So, you're asking me to do something off topic? Why? I'm asking you to do something that I think is relevant to how you see my arguments. Let me worry about the topic -- I started it ... along with this prediction:
Message 1 The challenge is accepted, let the equivocation and evasion begin. Note also, from the OP -- just a reminder -- for the record, this is what the topic is about:
quote: It is not about me - nor about supernatural beings per se - it is about you substantiating your extraordinary claim, a thing which you have thus far substantially failed to demonstrate, with real objective empirical evidence. Someone with a strong argument, backed up by "plenty of" actual objective empirical evidence, does not need to evade, dodge and play the shuck and jive game. So ... stop equivocating on the topic ... stop evading my posts ... and answer the question: what does Guernica mean to you? I'll show you how it relates to the topic. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : clrtyby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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