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Author | Topic: The US Gov't is Guilty of Murder | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Are you a recognized Nation State?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Sadly this ease of attacking our enemies has led to an increase in innocent deaths. Is that the case? Doesn't a directed low yield targeted strike endanger fewer innocents then any method in the past? Isn't the targeted drone strike preferable to carpet bombing, long range artillery barrage, car bombs?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I imagine the US would take action against any individual that they deemed a threat to do that.
I also imagine that the US would sanction any country that tried or seemed likely to try anything like that. Unless of course, the US wanted that person killed and then getting some other country to actually commit the act provides plausible deniability.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Still I think that it is morally reprehensible and a huge loss to the integrity of the rule of law. But legality has nothing to do with morality.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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No, law is born of practicality. Morality is seldom involved.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I don't see any double or even different standards being applied in your examples. The soldier in your example is charged with specifically targeting and killing someone who was not deemed an immediate threat.
How is that in anyway related to drone strikes?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No, I do not understand your point other than your seemingly totally misrepresenting the situations.
Scenario 1 — A soldier executes a dying man in the battlefield in a country that is in a state of occupation and near civil war. The man was absolutely going to dye and the defendant characterizes it as an act of mercy. He is accused of murder because he was not in immediate danger. The actual situation is that the soldier is restricted in what he can and cannot do under rule of law. One thing he cannot do is commit a mercy killing.
Scenario 2 — A soldier executes a suspected militant and his family in a country not at war with anyone from 4000 miles away. The danger that is used to justify the killing is of a theoretical nature. He bears no responsibility for killing the 'militant' or the accidentally dispatched. There is no theoretical nature involved. The target is identified and assigned and the soldier carried out the orders. Sorry but I still see no correspondence between the two scenarios.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But that is a misrepresentation of the situation.
When someone is targeted it is not because they might be some future danger, it is because they are a clear and present danger. That is hardly theoretical.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Not "Orwellian" at all. The people targeted are targeted as I said, because they are a "clear and present danger".
They are targeted based on past behavior as well as continued current behavior.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Too funny.
I did not exclude future harm, I said the decision was made based on them being a Clear and Present danger. Nor do I know what the danger was in any specific drone attack, but since I also did not call for them that is irrelevant. The point is that it is still not murder.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Without even knowing anything about those who were killed.
The reason I know is that that is the standard our government set for authorizing such strikes. What I do know is that I very much approve of such drone strikes and that I hope in the future we will develop even better methods of selective termination. We are still trying to develop the new set of Rules of War, and so the questions like "What level of suspicion is required to justify killing uninvolved people in a country we are not at war with?" is a valid one, although not relevant to this topic.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So what he should have said was that he thought the guy was going to get better and start shooting at him again at some future date. This then would be equal to the danger presented by a 'suspected militant'. And also present enough evidence that was the case to sway the judge or jury.
Say you have an armed robber who has killed a couple of people and taken refuge in his house with his wife and children. By your line of reasoning it would be acceptable for the police to just blow up the whole house killing all the occupants because the criminal presented a danger. That is not my line of reasoning and simply more misrepresentation of both the scenarios presented and my position. Continuing to create false analogies does not help your position.
It is not legal at all, it is just expedient. Would it be legal to do it in the US? If Iran were to carry out an operation like these in the US it would be classified as terrorism. We would have no qualms about calling it murder. Herein lies the hypocrisy and the dishonest application of 'our' own laws. Terrorism and murder are not synonymous just as killing and murder are not synonymous.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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No, that's not what I mean at all.
The current set of laws relating to wars are set around the concept of Nation State conflicts and the assumption that there is some governmental body that has both the rights and capabilities of ending a conflict. When looking at terrorism that is not the case. We are basically in our infancy in creating a set of Rules of War involving NGOs.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
One is that one behavior is legal while the other is illegal.
Second is that your hostage scenario takes place in a nation under rule of law while the drone strike does not.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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