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Author | Topic: Why would God write a book of lies and why would you worship such a being? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Hawkins Member (Idle past 1402 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
I have seen a few Christians claim that many of what appears to be historical documents in the bible, actually did not occur at all.
=============== What makes think that except for your own faith or based on the fallacy that the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence? It's pretty safe to say that the most parts of human history (of 1000 more nations and over up to 5000 years) are not evidence base. You choose to believe what the historians wrote, that's the case. In the case that you acquired the evidence, it can only be a bonus. Still the most parts of it are without the so-called evidence. It's actually a process of witnessing, that is, to some parts of human history you have to trust what was written by other humans. Religions behave the same way, it is because so that a true must have a criteria in choosing His witnesses and to set up rules to ban false witnessing. Christian God could be the only God doing so. Other gods don't seem to understand this nature of history/religion to do the same. Measures taken:1) the scriptures must be witnessed and written by authenticated witnesses such as the formally assigned prophets or apostles. 2) through the commandments the Jews were educated not to bear false witnessing. This is to prepare the prophets (OT) to bear witness for God, as they are exclusively the Jews. Thus in the Jews culture, a witnessing is valid only when witnessed by more than 1 humans. 3) as for NT, 10 out of the 12 direct witnesses (the disciples) martyred themselves as a witness to what was said and done. And there are several verses saying that "don't do false witnessing". In the book of revelation, it is even said that the liars will be burnt to the Lake of Fire. Other gods don't take such a measure perhaps because they are clueless about what the nature of human history is. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1402 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
Treasure Island was written by Jim Hawkins with a chapter or two added by Dr. Livesey. How would you authenticate them as witnesses?
============================================= Do they martyr themselves to say the truth? The point is, by the nature of history itself, most part of history cannot be 'proven', it all relies on humans' eye witnessing. "cannot be proven" is a nature of history (including the 5000 years of written history of over 1000 nations). You choose to believe what was written by the historians or not. Deal with it. So for something historical, the best "witnessing" is, 1) write a book about it2) martyr as a direct witness to say the truth Whether you believe or not remains one's own choice. If you'd like to say that human history is like a book of "Treasure Island". The question is, since when the book of "Treasure Island" gained 1/3 humans as believers?! Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1402 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
quote:======================== I am talking about the BEST one can do! As by nature, history cannot be proven, generally speaking. As a common sense, no one dies for his own lie. That's the point made by a martyrdom. Edited by AdminPhat, : highlighted quote
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1402 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
I think you missed my point. I asked, "How would you authenticate them as witnesses?"
========================================= Why do they need to be authenticated in the first place. Do you need someone to authenticate you for you to write down something your encountered or experienced? -------------------------But how do you know that the book and the martyrdom aren't fiction? =================== As I already said, it's normal that history cannot be proven. At least theologically it is so. There are also historical supports which are written by humans though. =================I'm not saying that history is like Treasure Island - history can be authenticated. I'm saying that the Bible is like Treasure Island - neither is history because neither can be authenticated. Both claim to be written by eyewitnesses but those claims can't be authenticated. =================== So you swallow whatever authenticated by humans? Moreover, who says all parts of human history is authenticated by anyone. Some are just books written at a certain time but authenticated much later as formal history. Even the authentication process itself is not evidence based. It's at best a trust of the historians (by faith should I say). Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1402 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
And this applies to 9/11/2001 hijackers and to suicide bombers? Yes? They die to prove that Mohammed got it right?
=================== So you can't tell the difference between the belief of others' lie and their own lies? They did not die for their own lies! Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1402 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
As opposed to what?
======================== In this case God exists, He can authenticate.
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1402 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
God has not been authenticated.
====================== Do you realize that it speaks of your faith? Or do you realize that this is a statement of faith? Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1402 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
No, it is not a statement of faith. I don't have faith that God doesn't exist.
======================== It is a faith statement based on the assumption that God doesn't exist which you don't know, thus it's your faith. On the other hand, if He exist, He can authenticate. Plain and straight. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1402 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
But there is no assumption that God doesn't exist
===================================== By the assumption that He exist, He doesn't need your authentication. So out of the assumption that He doesn't exist, what else can you make the point the "you didn't authenticate Him"?
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