Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Why would God write a book of lies and why would you worship such a being?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 13 of 86 (670038)
08-08-2012 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by foreveryoung
08-07-2012 11:38 PM


Fiction and Lie are not synonymous
Well God did not write the Bible and there really isn't such a thing as "The Bible" in the first place.
Fiction and Lie are not synonymous. Fiction is often a great way to convey a truth.
Honesty compels me to accept reality, even when that reality refutes something I really wished were true.
Stories such as the Biblical Flood myths or the Exodus or the Garden of Eden or the Conquest of Canaan or Jonah, or the Tower of Babel are not written in such a way to appear as legitimate; for example, Genesis 2&3 are clearly written as a "Just So" story meant to explain why childbirth seems more painful for humans, why we fear snakes, why humans wear clothes, why we farm instead of just being hunter gatherers.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by foreveryoung, posted 08-07-2012 11:38 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 20 of 86 (670063)
08-08-2012 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by foreveryoung
08-08-2012 10:25 AM


What Christianity is
Christianity is about doing what Christ commanded us to do; to heal the sick, comfort the sorrowful, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, teach the children to think critically.
It is not just about the benefits, the "what's in it for me". It's about taking up a cross and trying to do what is right.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by foreveryoung, posted 08-08-2012 10:25 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 22 of 86 (670067)
08-08-2012 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Jazzns
08-08-2012 10:54 AM


Re: Fear
So I think people start to do what jar suggests. They change the definition of "truth".
I'm not sure how I change the definition of "truth". While that may or may not be relevant here it likely is worth discussing.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Jazzns, posted 08-08-2012 10:54 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Jazzns, posted 08-08-2012 11:22 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 30 of 86 (670098)
08-08-2012 6:46 PM


God the fool or God the liar
If someone is going to take the position the God actually wrote the Bible or controlled the content of the Bible then I don't see how that person could possibly come to any conclusion other than that God is either a liar or a fool. There are simply far to many stories in the Bible that are absolutely refuted by the evidence in this universe that the same God supposedly created, for example the two or more mutually exclusive flood stories. Either God wrote the stories wrong or God falsified the evidence. Either of those make that God a cheat at best or simply incompetent.
So faced with such conflicts I find my best choice, most reasonable choice, is to try to determine which is most likely.
It's possible of course that God is some Loki like or Coyote like trickster that did fudge the evidence that is this universe. It's possible that God just faked the genetic bottleneck evidence, hid all the evidence of a world-wide flood during the time humans have been on earth, placed fake artificially aged human remains that show humans all over the world tens and hundreds of thousands of years before the Garden of Eden existed.
I can not see any reason to worship such a God.
Or it's possible that God created the universe just as it appears and that just humans wrote the Bible. It's possible that those humans did the best they could with their limited knowledge to describe using tales and fables their understanding of the world and their relationship with their fellow man and their understanding of God. If that is the case then we should be able to see God and morality and culture evolve over time in the stories, and that's pretty much what we see.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 57 of 86 (670719)
08-17-2012 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by ringo
08-17-2012 11:56 AM


On Israel
And foreveryoung seems to have missed the fact that the Biblical Nation State called Israel was often apostate.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 08-17-2012 11:56 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by foreveryoung, posted 08-19-2012 1:41 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 59 of 86 (670799)
08-19-2012 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by foreveryoung
08-19-2012 1:41 AM


Re: On Israel
Israel has no legitimacy and even the Bible says that God removed support and condemned the Biblical state of Israel.
The only legitimacy that the modern state of Israel has is that it does exist, is powerful and has been recognized as a State by the United Nations and some other nation states.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by foreveryoung, posted 08-19-2012 1:41 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by foreveryoung, posted 08-19-2012 9:50 PM jar has replied
 Message 62 by AdminPD, posted 08-20-2012 7:07 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 61 of 86 (670820)
08-19-2012 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by foreveryoung
08-19-2012 9:50 PM


Re: On Israel
Nonsense, utter nonsense.
That there were two states, Israel and Judah are facts supported by actual evidence outside the Bible. Further the Exodus had NOTHING to do with the creation of a nation state called Israel but rather of a people identified as Hebrews.
Have you ever even read the Bible stories or studied anything about the history of the area?
Edited by jar, : change people identified as Israelites to hebrews

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by foreveryoung, posted 08-19-2012 9:50 PM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by arachnophilia, posted 09-12-2012 10:06 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 70 of 86 (673302)
09-18-2012 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Hawkins
09-18-2012 1:14 PM


on martyrs
So for something historical, the best "witnessing" is,
1) write a book about it
2) martyr as a direct witness to say the truth
Martyrdom has little or nothing to do with truth and in no way adds any weight to decisions of whether something is true or not.
In addition there is very little evidence of "Christian Martyrs" until fairly recently, and in almost all those cases the people killed themselves or allowed themselves to be killed for rather silly reasons.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 1:14 PM Hawkins has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 1:35 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 72 of 86 (673309)
09-18-2012 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Hawkins
09-18-2012 1:35 PM


Re: on martyrs
I am talking about the BEST one can do! As by nature, history cannot be proven, generally speaking.
As a common sense, no one dies for his own lie. That's the point made by a martyrdom.
Sorry but wrong again.
History can be proven or disproved based on physical evidence. For example that the Biblical Floods never happened has been proven.
And sure people die for their own ignorance and their belief in things that are false.
Look at the martyrs that died because they believed that the Ghost Dance would protect them from bullets.
Becoming a martyr says nothing about whether or not a belief is true.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 1:35 PM Hawkins has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024