Do We NEED God?

This topic is for those who assume/believe that God either exists or may exist.In the Book Nook in another topic, Ringo and I had this exchange: I personally believe that we humans need a Creator/mentor all wise guide that encourages and inspires humanity to fulfill our best aspirations. Perhaps our greatest strength is our personal and societal responsibility for our own destiny, but I believe that we are flawed in the ability to achieve this goal.Faith/Belief?

We need God because we are either unable or unwilling to lay aside our own wants and desires enough to solve the major problems of the world. Wars have always existed, for example, and dont appear to be getting any less violent. Human greed is as pervasive as ever.I am pessimistic in my expectation that humans shall ever overcome these problems on our own.As to why we are flawed, many would use the handy explanation of "original sin" but I am personally not sure...except that in my own case I won't give up the comforts that I deserve(or think I deserve) only to help someone else. well..I will...but only to a degree.

This all depends on how God is defined. If we go strictly by the book,(the good book, of course ) than yes. The general idea is that imperfect humans will eventually fail and that the savior will return to save His own.(who, by the way, are "whosoever". )There is no excuse that God picks His favorites, given that whosoever believes will be saved.) This only poses a problem for those who refuse to believe. Even those who can't believe will eventually be given enough evidence to cast a free vote aye or nay.add by edit: And God is defined not only by the god book but by philosophical consensus. Nobody really knows that God, if God exists, is anything as we imagine. We can speculate, however.Edited by Phat, : added stuff

Personally I believe that people will change their tune once the status quo becomes unlivable.
A guy may not want higher taxes until the road becomes so full of potholes that he finds himself paying more for a mechanic than he would have paid in higher road taxes, for example.Perhaps God won't ever make a return appearance to simply bail us out. Perhaps She foreknows that life will become more and more difficult until we globally learn that consensus is preferable to anarchy.

And all Im saying is that for the purpose of this discussion, the God that we can find consensus with need not be strictly defined the way that He has been defined previously.I maintain that in order to need God, God would have to be:

Potentially Interactive with humanity

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Possessive of a level of wisdom and insight that no human has yet attained.

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Caring of us...not vindictive or angry so as to wipe us out or...even worse...ignore us.

My point is this: Throw the books away. Start from scratch. God by definition. Write your own book. Make your own definition. The only requirement is that this God cannot be your own superego. He/She/It has to be an actual Being apart from yourself.

I certainly respect your input as well as your response to my musing. It seems as if the nail has been hit on the head.Some people definitely don't think that God is necessary. The issue of control also comes up, and apologists often mention that one hallmark characteristic of many atheists/agnostics is the insistence upon having a freely chosen life free from the control of any deity or organized religious influence. People like me, in contrast, seem to crave the need of an outer agent of control and feel lost would we have to live in a universe free from such control.The good book says "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."Some would suggest that being like children implies needing some sort of super parent. A case could be made that many religious people simply don't want to grow up and face responsibility. Well.... I DO want God to exist, if thats what you mean. In fact, I believe that God exists apart from our imagination of such a Deity. To throw that away would be to throw away my inner hope for a rescuer more powerful than myself. I suppose in all honesty I don't ever see myself(and by extension humanity) able to solve life's toughest issues.

Hmmmm...that could be a prayer of sorts...Maybe you have asked for help a lot and found yourself still with a blank page. If so, I can see why you would doubt the existence of any sort of helpful Deity. Perhaps the difference between us is that I want such a Deity to exist more than you do....(?)

The retirement sounds nice. I want to have challenges in life...I just don't want them to be overwhelmingly more than I can handle. I am unafraid to work hard and try and do my best, but I don't fancy the idea of going home every day with a sore back and a tired mind.I like the idea of a stronger mind and body every day.

The closest that I can come to is this:
9/11 attacks led Americans to church like never beforeI will admit, however, that for all practical and logical purposes, it is only Phat that needs God.

In my belief, God exists whether or not anyone believes in Him/Her/It. belief 1 : confidence, trust 2 : something (as a tenet or creed) believed syn conviction, opinion, persuasion, sentimentThus I would argue that for me it is important to have confidence and trust that God is interactive and approachable. Otherwise what good is He? Edited by Phat, : title

Very true, but I would settle for simply having a relationship with Him/Her/It even if I was not favored in any measurable way apart from acceptance.GOD, if GOD exists is, in my opinion, quite capable of having some sort of communication/communion with every living thing in the universe.In my more juvenile moments (of which there are many ) I whine like a spoiled child and want to get blessed with that candy bar in the checkout lane. Thankfully, IF God is involved in empathy towards my emotions at all, He usually ignores my pleading, as any good parent would do.

I want to point out one thing, Straggler. The very first line of my topic was this:

quote:

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This topic is for those who assume/believe that God either exists or may exist.

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You simply cannot frame the issue by saying As the author of the thread, it is not simply my wishful belief but a prior assumption that God indeed does exist regardless of whether anyone believes in Him or not.I don't like to separate believers and unbelievers, but I will not be bound by the a priori assumption that absence of evidence equates to evidence of absence. Yes, I cannot dispute this. Since the focus is on Phat, in your mind, allow me to ask you a question. If what I believe is true---that God exists regardless of any evidence for or against and regardless what your individual beliefs may be, how will you resolve your need for Him or not?

Since you cannot study Him, all you can do is study those who believe in Him. In order to understand them, allow yourself to think as they do. (temporarily, of course. )

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If God exists, the first task for us is to establish what characteristics we think He/She/It may have. Jar has broken it down for us in declaring that GOD, if GOD exists is essentially unknowable. My belief differs from his in that I say that GOD, if GOD exists is knowable only to the extent that we allow communion.

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Does my frame make any sense?

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Edited by Phat, :

Good question.If communion is a possibility and is a desire of both God and humans, is there any value to the communion?

I can give you a hint as to how it can be. Lert me ask you a question. Based on the description of the character of Jesus, in the Bible, can you imagine how He might respond to a given everyday situation that we humans face now?I say might because obviously we don't know for sure. But by reconstructing what we do know, communion (in the form of a likely response) is possible.