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Author Topic:   What Properties Might Light of Millennia Past Have that Today's Doesn't?
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 697 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 80 of 170 (674709)
10-02-2012 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Percy
09-30-2012 9:52 PM


admin writes:
But c is a constant because it is a function of the fine structure constant, and significant changes in that constant would have widespread effects on the nature of our universe, effects that we have not observed
The fine structure constant is dimensionless and can be defined in terms of the permeability of free space, the speed of light in a vacuum, the elementary charge and the reduced plank's constant.
In a scheme of things where the fabric of space itself is changing by means of the zero point energy, all of the above terms are also changing and changing in a way that keeps the fine structure constant....constant. Since it can be constant with a changing speed of light, no need to conjure up ideas about carbon life being impossible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Percy, posted 09-30-2012 9:52 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Son Goku, posted 10-02-2012 5:07 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 82 by NoNukes, posted 10-02-2012 8:33 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 697 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(2)
Message 86 of 170 (674750)
10-02-2012 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by NoNukes
10-02-2012 8:33 AM


nonukes writes:
The problem, as has been pointed out repeatedly, is that changing all of those other 'constants' does have ramifications for life in the universe and life on earth. But it seems that once the discussion turns to discussing those ramifications, and the fact that those changed constants lead to results we ought to be able to observe, you lose all interest in the discussion.
I don't care how many times it has been repeated; it is merely your assertion and nothing more. All of the constants are derived from a deeper reality and they don't change alone but in tandem. This tandem change keeps all the ramifications that you insist would happen from happening. I lose interest because you guys have plugs in your ears and I hate all the inenvitable sarcasm that always comes in some people's posts and there is no one that can screen out those posts from my eyes and so I will blow up and get banned. Instead of getting banned, I post until I see the usual sarcasm and condension getting posted and then I scram and don't come back or I start reading other topics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by NoNukes, posted 10-02-2012 8:33 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Percy, posted 10-02-2012 3:45 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 88 by JonF, posted 10-02-2012 3:56 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 89 by NoNukes, posted 10-02-2012 4:06 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 111 by onifre, posted 10-05-2012 6:57 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 697 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 91 of 170 (674786)
10-03-2012 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by JonF
10-02-2012 3:56 PM


If changes in the constants would show its effects no matter how the constants change in time, it should be a simple matter for you to show mathematically that there exists no such arrangements of constants that are changing in time that could produce a universe with no known effects. The fact of the matter is that such changes in the constants have indeed produced visible effects on our universe. Those changes are 1.an enormous amount of radioactive decay in a very short time. 2. Starlight that has reached us from a distance that in an amount of time that would be impossible to replicate today. 3. Accelerated plate tectonics that occurred in much shorter time than would be possible with today's rates.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-03-2012 2:24 AM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied
 Message 93 by Son Goku, posted 10-03-2012 6:48 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 94 by JonF, posted 10-03-2012 8:32 AM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 95 by Percy, posted 10-03-2012 8:42 AM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 96 by NoNukes, posted 10-03-2012 10:19 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 697 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(4)
Message 97 of 170 (674886)
10-03-2012 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Percy
10-03-2012 8:42 AM


The evidence for all of those things is that the earth is not 4.56 billion years old but orders of magnitude younger than that. All you have to say otherwise is that radiometric dating shows 4.56 billion years, but you cannot prove that radioactive decay has been constant at the rate it has been today. You people are the one who spout claims with no evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Percy, posted 10-03-2012 8:42 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 697 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(4)
Message 98 of 170 (674887)
10-03-2012 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by NoNukes
10-03-2012 10:19 AM


Re: Burden shifting not accepted.
nonukes writes:
It would not be a simple matter to show generally what you require, but we do know that the attempts to show some kind of changing in tandem constants have been dismal failures. Plugging up your own ears and losing your temper when those failures are discussed doesn't make the failures go away.
Would you please quit lying about me? That isn't the reason I lose my temper. I lose my temper because of all of the sarcasm and insults and condescension and piling on. When you decide to start telling the truth, get back with me, otherwise you are on ignore.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by NoNukes, posted 10-03-2012 10:19 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by NoNukes, posted 10-04-2012 1:30 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 697 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(4)
Message 99 of 170 (674888)
10-03-2012 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Percy
10-03-2012 8:42 AM


percy writes:
There is no evidence that accelerated radioactive decay has ever occurred during the history of the Earth,
Yes there is. The earth is orders of magnitude younger than 4.56 billions years old, therefore there has been accelerated radioactive decay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Percy, posted 10-03-2012 8:42 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Coyote, posted 10-04-2012 12:33 AM foreveryoung has not replied
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 Message 104 by Granny Magda, posted 10-04-2012 2:39 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 106 by Percy, posted 10-04-2012 9:14 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 107 by Theodoric, posted 10-04-2012 9:24 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 164 by tsig, posted 10-10-2012 4:13 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 697 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(3)
Message 100 of 170 (674889)
10-03-2012 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by JonF
10-03-2012 8:32 AM


jonf writes:
Those are not facts, they are wild and unsupported claims.
If those claims are unsupported then your claims are just as unsupported. Saying your claims are supported doesn't fly with me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by JonF, posted 10-03-2012 8:32 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
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foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 697 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(4)
Message 108 of 170 (674956)
10-04-2012 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by NoNukes
10-04-2012 1:30 AM


Re: Burden shifting not accepted.
nonukes writes:
You are always welcome to ignore me. But you've admitted in this thread that part of the reason for losing your temper is the audience having their fingers in their ears. In other words, because your ideas are not given what you consider to be proper consideration
You cannot have a conversation with someone if they are not listening. It has nothing to do with proper consideration. See how you twist the meanings of my words to your own ends?
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by NoNukes, posted 10-04-2012 1:30 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by NoNukes, posted 10-04-2012 4:57 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 110 by Admin, posted 10-04-2012 9:44 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
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