Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8897 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-18-2019 3:18 PM
146 online now:
Diomedes, dwise1, edge, JonF, kjsimons, PaulK, Percy (Admin), ringo, Tangle, WookieeB (10 members, 136 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 848,431 Year: 3,468/19,786 Month: 463/1,087 Week: 53/212 Day: 14/39 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
1314
15
1617
...
21Next
Author Topic:   Scriptural evidence that Jesus is Messiah:
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 211 of 304 (674673)
10-01-2012 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by jaywill
10-01-2012 12:53 PM


Re: Fulfilled Prophecies
But Isaiah 7 still has jackshit to do with Jesus.

That phrase you so love to quote mine and take out of context is part of the prophecy concerning Israel, Aram and Ephraim and is the timing indicator. It is solely related to when the fulfillment would happen, before that child is even old enough to choose good instead of bad.

Ahaz was not evil in the eyes of God according to the story, rather it was Israel that was abandoned by God.

Have you ever read the Bible?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by jaywill, posted 10-01-2012 12:53 PM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by jaywill, posted 10-02-2012 11:32 AM jar has responded

  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3099
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 212 of 304 (674677)
10-01-2012 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by jaywill
10-01-2012 10:09 AM


What makes you think that there was a 'dual prophecy'?

Now, what matthew is doing is RETROFITTING a sign to King Ahaz into Jesus. that does not make the phrase in Isaiah to be a prophecy about Jesus, but rather an after the fact retrofitting. If you read it in context AND with the proper translation.. it has nothing to do with Jesus was so ever.

IT shows, well Matthew lied about it.

I see no reason for it to be a dual prophecy. That is retrofitting things... and the claim for dual prophecy sounds more like the cry of desperation than anything else.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by jaywill, posted 10-01-2012 10:09 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by jaywill, posted 10-02-2012 6:46 AM ramoss has not yet responded

  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3099
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 213 of 304 (674679)
10-01-2012 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by jaywill
09-27-2012 5:40 PM


I am wondering.. did you even READ what anybody said at all.

The sign is NOT about the child,.. but the conception and birth of the child is the time frame for something to happen. What was King Ahaz concerned about?? He was worried about the King of Assyeria? What was the sign?? By the time this child is old enough to say 'Mother and Father', the King of Assyeria won't be a problem anymore. That was the sign. The child was merely a clock for an event.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by jaywill, posted 09-27-2012 5:40 PM jaywill has not yet responded

  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3099
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 214 of 304 (674684)
10-01-2012 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by jaywill
10-01-2012 12:53 PM


Re: Fulfilled Prophecies
Boy, you certainly do not understand the Jewish traditions and naming conventions.

It is common tradition to name childern after traits of God. Isaiah means "God is our salvation', and Hezekiah means "Mighty God" (or literally, God is our might). Joshua means 'God is our salvation'. That is very typical of Jewish names.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by jaywill, posted 10-01-2012 12:53 PM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by jaywill, posted 10-02-2012 6:28 AM ramoss has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 215 of 304 (674716)
10-02-2012 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Granny Magda
10-01-2012 10:58 AM


Granny Mag,

I don't think much of the website you sourced which postures itself to be all about "religous tolerance."

I don't know whose rules those are about prophecy. But dual fulfillment of prophecy is evident in the Bible because God's hands cannot be tied when moral situations reoccur. He economically applies the same promise to more than one moment in time.

quote:

Prophecies fulfilled on a number of occasions

Some Bible prophecies are fulfilled on several occasions because of situations which keep occurring.

Example. Deuteronomy 28:49 prophesies of "a nation . . . from far" which God would send against Israel if they forsook Him. Note how the terms of this verse were fulfilled by Assyria (Isa. 5:26; 33:19; Hos. 8:1) and Babylon (Jer. 4:13; 5:15) as well as Rome (Mt. 24:28).

Other examples. Cannibalism, prophesied in Leviticus 26:29, is recorded in both 2 Kgs. 6:26-31 and Lamentations 4:10, and according to Josephus occurred in A.D. 70. The opposition to Christ by rulers foretold in Psalm 2:1-3 occurred at his birth (Mt. 2) and his crucifixion (Acts 4:25-28), and will occur at his Second Coming (Rev. 17:12-14) and at the end of the Millennium (20:7-10).


Some prophecy has an initial fulfillment and a greater coming fulfillment to be expected:

quote:

Some Bible prophecies are fulfilled completely initially but this fulfilment is typical of something greater to come.

Example. Isaiah 17 was fulfilled in the Assyrian invasion in Hezekiah's time, culminating in the destruction of the Assyrian host (v. 14). Yet this fulfilment is also typical of the host which invades the land at the time of Christ's return, and is destroyed.

Other examples. Jeremiah 50 and 51 are prophetic of the overthrow of the kingdom of Babylon, but the extensive use of the language of these chapters in Revelation 17 and 18 shows that this overthrow was typical of the overthrow of spiritual Babylon at Christ's return. Psalm 41 (not strictly prophecy) is about David's experiences in the revolt of Absalom, but his betrayal by Ahithophel is typical of Judas's betrayal of Christ (v. 9, quoted in John 13:18).


Christ taught that He was the greater Solomon, the greater David, the greater Jonah.

So sometime because of the moral supriority of Christ to everyone else in the history of man, a prophetuc utterance may have one fulfillment in a person but a more important fulfillment in the Greater version of the person - Christ.

quote:
Example. The promises to David are quoted with reference to Solomon; compare:

1 Chronicles 17:12,13 with 22:9,10. This is because Solomon's reign was a type of Christ's Kingdom; compare 1 Kings 4:25 with prophecies of the Kingdom in Jeremiah 23:6 and Micah 4:4. However, their complete fulfilment comes with Christ; see Luke 1:32,33 and Acts 13:33.

Other examples. Micah 4,5 was initially fulfilled by Hezekiah in relation to the Assyrian invasion, but will be more completely fulfilled by Christ setting up the Kingdom. Some features of Psalm 72 were fulfilled by Solomon's kingdom, but the psalm will be completely fulfilled in the future reign of Christ.


Copied from article "Dual Fulfillment of Prophecy" at http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/34.htm

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Granny Magda, posted 10-01-2012 10:58 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Granny Magda, posted 10-02-2012 12:33 PM jaywill has responded
 Message 221 by ringo, posted 10-02-2012 1:07 PM jaywill has not yet responded
 Message 231 by ramoss, posted 10-03-2012 1:11 AM jaywill has responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 216 of 304 (674717)
10-02-2012 6:28 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by ramoss
10-01-2012 3:37 PM


Re: Fulfilled Prophecies
Boy, you certainly do not understand the Jewish traditions and naming conventions.

It is common tradition to name childern after traits of God. Isaiah means "God is our salvation', and Hezekiah means "Mighty God" (or literally, God is our might). Joshua means 'God is our salvation'. That is very typical of Jewish names.

I understand this. You fail to understand how important it is to God for a man to actually live up to the name he has.

David was a darling and a man after God's own heart.
Yet David did a number of things that fell morally short of his name.

So Christ, One who was sinless, essentially said that something more than David was taking place in His life. (Matt. 12:1-8)

Hezekiah has a great name as you point out. But when you look at the conclusion of Hezekiah's life you realize ultimately he only selfishly cared for his own reputatation. When it was time for him to die he begged for an extension, received it, and then blew it bad with boasting to the Chaldeans.

Christ, on the other hand, cared nothing for Himself. He selflessly only wanted everything for His Father. He died when it was time for Him to die. And what a death! It was not for Himself but for the whole world.

So you have the well named Hezekiah. But he serves as a type. The greater wise King is Jesus Christ, living up to all His Father desired where Hezekiah fell short.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by ramoss, posted 10-01-2012 3:37 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 217 of 304 (674719)
10-02-2012 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by ramoss
10-01-2012 2:42 PM


IT shows, well Matthew lied about it.

This is highly unlikely to me. Matthew's Gospel reveals the highest level of morality a human being can practice (by God's indwelling grace that is). As the heavenly Father is perfect His sons also shall be perfect, Matthew records of Jesus.

For Matthew to be faithfully recording what Jesus spoke there in this pristine and ultimate moral integrity, yet slipping in lies on the side, is not realistic to me.

He would have had to be schizophrenic to the extreme. Look at the so-called sermon on the mount (Matt. 5-8). I don't think on one hand Matthew is portraying this highest ethical standard in Jesus' teaching, and on the other inserting his own sneaky lies to help persuade the audience.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by ramoss, posted 10-01-2012 2:42 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 218 of 304 (674730)
10-02-2012 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by jar
10-01-2012 2:27 PM


Re: Fulfilled Prophecies
Ahaz was not evil in the eyes of God according to the story, rather it was Israel that was abandoned by God.

I will give it to you, that in the course of this discussion, a few times I thought I should re-read some chapters to get a refreshed overall picture.

But, Ahaz was recorded as a not a good king at all. God can be faithful to sinful people too.

quote:
In the seventeenth year of Pekah son of Remaliah, Ahaz son of Jotham king of Judah began to reign. 2 Ahaz was twenty years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem sixteen years. Unlike David his father, he did not do what was right in the eyes of the Lord his God. 3 He followed the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, engaging in the detestable practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before the Israelites. 4 He offered sacrifices and burned incense at the high places, on the hilltops and under every spreading tree. (2 Kings 16:1-4)


Have you ever read the Bible?

Yes, but not nearly enough. But in my reading I did notice that all the promises of God find their Yes and Amen in the Son of God.

"For as many promises of God as there are, in Him [Christ] is the Yes; therefore also through Him is the Amen to God, for glory through us to God." ( 2 Cor. 1:20)

So in reading the Bible, some of us understand that so many positive personalities in the Old Testament were types of Christ, in whom the Father had His ultimate fulfillment of His promises.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 10-01-2012 2:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by jar, posted 10-02-2012 12:05 PM jaywill has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 219 of 304 (674731)
10-02-2012 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by jaywill
10-02-2012 11:32 AM


Re: Fulfilled Prophecies
So once again, as expected, you simply do a Gish gallop and yet more totally irrelevant and valueless quote mining.

You asked for an example of fulfilled Biblical Prophecy.

I gave you an example of fulfilled Biblical Prophecy. God sent a prophecy to Ahaz. The prophecy was meant for Ahaz. The prophecy was fulfilled when Assyria attacked and destroyed Israel.

Why do you continue to try to diminish the value of the Bible?

It is NOT a book, it is an anthology of anthologies and different parts have different purposes as well as authors. 2 Kings (all of Kings) was meant as political propaganda. Israel and Judah are NOT synonymous and if you look at the section of 2 Kings you quoted it is written from the Israeli perspective while Isaiah is written from the perspective of Judah.

That part of 2 Kings is the counter point to the story found in Isaiah, the other side of the coin. It explains why Israel was threatening Ahaz and in case you missed it, God told Ahaz "No worries mate, I got your back. Those folk will be gone before you could cook a mess of prawns on the barbie."

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by jaywill, posted 10-02-2012 11:32 AM jaywill has not yet responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 220 of 304 (674738)
10-02-2012 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by jaywill
10-02-2012 6:12 AM


I don't think much of the website you sourced which postures itself to be all about "religous tolerance."

The important point is not the value of that specific website or even their set of criteria - those are just an example - but that for serious discussion to take place, you're going to need some sort of criteria for what makes a fulfilled prophecy.

But dual fulfillment of prophecy is evident in the Bible because God's hands cannot be tied when moral situations reoccur. He economically applies the same promise to more than one moment in time.

Whilst you are free to believe whatever you like, you need to realise that from an outsider's perspective, this sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it. Your "double fulfilment" is, from an observer's viewpoint, indistinguishable from a prophecy that is vague enough to fit multiple events. That makes for a less than persuasive argument.

Take the the citation of Lev 26:29 for example. The quote notes that this has been fulfilled at least three times. Well... yeah. Of course it has been. That's because it is a trivial prediction. Cannibalism has, sadly, always existed and probably always will. It would be amazing if the Jewish people had gone on this long without some instances of cannibalism. This is not only vague enough to be fitted around numerous events, but it is a spectacularly unimpressive prediction. It's about as impressive as predicting that it will, as some point in the future, rain in Scotland. Of course it will come true. It's a banal prediction and way too vague.

You see a double fulfilment of prophecy. I see a collection of vague prophecies that lack specific detail to the point where they can be fitted around any number of events. This kind of material isn't going to be convincing to anyone who doesn't already believe in Biblical prophecy. It might be fine for playing to the crowd, but it's not going to be persuasive elsewhere.

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by jaywill, posted 10-02-2012 6:12 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by jaywill, posted 10-02-2012 3:51 PM Granny Magda has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16217
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 221 of 304 (674742)
10-02-2012 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by jaywill
10-02-2012 6:12 AM


jaywill writes:

But dual fulfillment of prophecy is evident in the Bible because God's hands cannot be tied when moral situations reoccur. He economically applies the same promise to more than one moment in time.


I bet He re-uses tea bags too.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by jaywill, posted 10-02-2012 6:12 AM jaywill has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 222 of 304 (674743)
10-02-2012 2:16 PM


Contradictions in the Bible
Although it is slightly off topic, the current trend of the discussion is a great example of the contradictory nature found in much of the Bible.

Israel and Judah were separate City States, often at war with each other and often claiming that God was on THEIR side. It's another evidence that the Bible was written by men to serve the purposes of the authors and their immediate audience and not for folk living thousands of years later.

In this instance, Israel and Judah were at war. Each claimed that God was on their side. Isaiah was written from the point of view of Jerusalem and Judah while 2 Kings is written from the point of view of Israel. Both are works of political propaganda and meant to resonate with their respective audiences.

In Isaiah the Kings of Israel are depicted as evil while in 2 Kings we see just the opposite, it is Judah that is vilified.

Both are likely after the fact mythos.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by jaywill, posted 10-02-2012 4:24 PM jar has responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 223 of 304 (674754)
10-02-2012 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Granny Magda
10-02-2012 12:33 PM


Whilst you are free to believe whatever you like, you need to realise that from an outsider's perspective, this sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it.

I was an "outsider" once and not born an "insider."

One example of dual meaning applied to prophetic words occurs in the life of king Saul. The saying "Is Saul also among the prophets?" was attributed to two events in his life in First Samuel.

Prophetic predictions took place concerning Saul (1 Sam. 9,10).. Three detailed predictions are spoken concerning Saul. The third says -

"After that you will come to the hill of God, where the Philistines garrison is. And as you come to the city there, you will encounter a group of prophets coming down from the high place, preceded by harp and tambourine and pipe and lyre; and they will be prophesying.

And the Spirit of Jehovah will rush upon you; and you will prophesy with them and be turned into another man. And when these signs happen to you, do as you find occasion, for God is with you." (1 Sam. 10:5-7)

The events do happen according to prediction. And when the people see Saul prophesying among the prophets a kind of catchphrase circulates among them as an affirmation of God doing something wondeful for Israel and unto Saul.

First Samuel 10:11-12 "And when all who had known him previously saw that now he was prophesying with the prophets, the people said one to another, What is this that has happened to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets? ... Therefore it became a proverb, Is Saul also among the prophets?"

But this "mashal" or saying is repeated again for another event in First Samuel 19:24. The context is different. Now a highly apostate Saul sends three bands of men to hunt out David. David is with the prophet Samuel at Naioth. Each of these three groups of scouts are caught up in the Spirit of God and begin to prophesy also.

Saul goes himself to investigate. He too gets caught up by the Spirit of God and he lies naked a day and night prophesying before Samuel. This incident is also given as the reason for the people's saying -

First Samuel 19:24 - "And he [Saul] also stripped off his clothess and also prophesied before Samuel, and he lay naked all that day and all that night, THEREFORE they say, Is Saul also among the prophets? "

Two wonderful occasions in Israel's history are given as explanation of the proverb about Saul being among the prophets. God, apparently cared less about the technicals of matching one event with one fulfillment then He did to repeat a vital matter in His purposes. Mainly, Saul should be moved by the Spirit of God, not only initially at the time of anointing, but again when given opportunity to repent of his rebellion.

I can see therefore the saying about "a virgin shall be with child" who is to be called by others and her Emmanuel, to also recieve a dual fulfillment.

While this appears to you as cynically wanting cake and eating it too, it could be that your priorities simply do not match God's sometimes, in His fulfilling the words of His prophets.

It is important that Saul be speaking the word of God when initially anointed as king. It is even more important that Saul be speaking the word of God instead of jealously hunting, with the intent to murder, his successor according to God's will.

It is important that Ahaz rely upon God to be saved from his national enemies. It is even more important that God become incarnated for His redemptive work for all the world.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Granny Magda, posted 10-02-2012 12:33 PM Granny Magda has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 224 of 304 (674755)
10-02-2012 3:56 PM


Continued with Granny Mag -


Your "double fulfilment" is, from an observer's viewpoint, indistinguishable from a prophecy that is vague enough to fit multiple events. That makes for a less than persuasive argument.

Perhaps so. But you have a number of models of these kinds of paradoxes. And the wise and understanding sometimes are not the ones to whom God reveals His most vital truths, but to other trusting hearts -

"In that hour He exulted in the Holy Spirit and said, I extol You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes. Yes, Father, for thus it has been well pleasing in Your sight." (Luke 10:21)

Sometimes we should not have so much trust in ourselves as being too intelligent, too wise, to believe God's ways. It is not just your intellect that He seeks to gain. It is all your heart of loving emotion, confessing conscience, submissive will, as well as analytical intellect that He seeks to gain.

I think some refer to the word "holistic" in regard to a well rounded sphere of human life.


Take the the citation of Lev 26:29 for example. The quote notes that this has been fulfilled at least three times. Well... yeah. Of course it has been. That's because it is a trivial prediction. Cannibalism has, sadly, always existed and probably always will.... It's a banal prediction and way too vague.

I don't read those passages about Cannabalism as practiced around the world. I think the specific referent is Israel.

I don't know how regularly Israel fell into Cannabalism. I don't think that regularly they did. And while the prediction may seem banal to you, the people involved applied it to rather immediate and pressing circumstances. It was more than once they had to consider the dire consequences of revolting against the worship of God.


You see a double fulfilment of prophecy. I see a collection of vague prophecies that lack specific detail to the point where they can be fitted around any number of events. This kind of material isn't going to be convincing to anyone who doesn't already believe in Biblical prophecy. It might be fine for playing to the crowd, but it's not going to be persuasive elsewhere.

I don't agree. Especially when it comes to Christ, to whom all the other godly figures in the Bible are only types, foreshadows, and pre-figures.

When Noah was born the people saw in that an answer to the promise of God for a Savior -

"And he [Lamech] called his name Noah, saying, This one will give us rest from our work and from the toil of our hands, which come because of the ground which Jehovah has cursed." (Gen. 5:29)

But in the larger scheme of world history we know that Christ is the greater Noah. For the salvation of those who enter into Him with the earth and the animal kingdom is released from the curse because of His second coming.

Had we had a time machine we would have to inform Lamech - "Lamech there is even a greater Noah to save us which is coming after this Noah. That is the Son of God. "

"For as many promises of God as there are, in Him [Christ] is the Yes; therefore also through Him is the Amen to God ..." (2 Cor. 1:20)

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Granny Magda, posted 10-03-2012 2:26 AM jaywill has responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 225 of 304 (674759)
10-02-2012 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by jar
10-02-2012 2:16 PM


Re: Contradictions in the Bible
In Isaiah the Kings of Israel are depicted as evil while in 2 Kings we see just the opposite, it is Judah that is vilified.

I don't think this theory would hold up under close examination. Rather what we have here in Isaiah and Second Kings is the candid speaking of the word of God, appropriate to the real situation.

Second Kings 22:1,2 speaks well of Josiah who reigned 31 years in Jerusalem. According to your theory he should only be vilified.

Second Kings 18:1 - 20:21 has some good things to say about Hezekiah who reigned for 25 years in Jerusalem.

"And he did what was right in the sight of Jehovah, according to all that David his father had done." (v.3)

"And he clung to Jehovah the God of Israel, so that after him there was no one like him among all the kings of JUDAH, nor any among those who were after him." (v.6)

Now I get to turn the question to you. Did you read the Bible ?

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 10-02-2012 2:16 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by jar, posted 10-02-2012 4:36 PM jaywill has responded

  
RewPrev1
...
1314
15
1617
...
21Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019