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Author Topic:   Scriptural evidence that Jesus is Messiah:
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 249 of 304 (674838)
10-03-2012 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by jar
10-03-2012 11:33 AM


Re: Contradictions in the Bible
You asked for an example of fulfilled prophecy in Message 203 and I provided one in Message 204 and again in Message 208.
Each of those three links I specifically responded to.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by jar, posted 10-03-2012 11:33 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 250 of 304 (674841)
10-03-2012 11:44 AM


AbE: and the prophecy has nothing top do with Jesus.
For the last time. The words that you say had nothing to do with Jesus, Matthew does not refer to. He refers to verse 14.
That has to do with the virgin (or young woman) born child called Emmanuel. Believe it or do not believe it.
I believe it. But evidence is not persuasion. I cannot force persuade you against your will. Don't take it as fulfilled prophecy if you wish.
We take it as Christians. Forget about trying to rob the Christian church of this long held confidence in Matthew's Gospel.
You're not going to rob us of this fulfilled prophecy. Forget about it.
Soon I may go down to the discussion of the preterist discussion of the Second Coming of Christ to respond to some thoughts there.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by jar, posted 10-03-2012 12:00 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 252 of 304 (674846)
10-03-2012 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by jar
10-03-2012 12:00 PM


And that is called quote mining, taking stuff out of context.
Yes, the author of Matthew is trying to shoehorn his position in by taking a single verse out of context. When you honestly go back and read Isaiah 7 though you find that the author is misrepresenting what was actually written.
Here is Isaiah 7 in full, not quote mined.
What are the WORDS which Matthew says are were being fulfilled ?
They are only the 14th verse.
Could it possibly that God would fulfill words spoken by one of His prophets more than once ?
Yes, if He has that need.
An example in the Old Testament:
"And the Spirit of Jehovah will rush upon you; and you will prophesy and be turned into another man." (1 Sam. 10:6)
Taken as fulfilled by God's people in 1 Sam. 10:11,12.
Taken a second time to be fulfilled in 1 Sam. 19:23,24.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by jar, posted 10-03-2012 12:00 PM jar has replied

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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 254 of 304 (674916)
10-04-2012 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by NoNukes
10-03-2012 11:31 AM


Re: Contradictions in the Bible
I am puzzled by this statement. Didn't you and jar both agree that Isaiah 7:14 is a fulfilled prophecy? Isn't it the double fulfillment that you two disagree about?
That's right.
It is a bit confusing because when I asked for his example, he somewhat picks prophetic words uttered which are the very utterances being disputed.
I think he picked this example to attempt to jury rig the debate in his favor.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by NoNukes, posted 10-03-2012 11:31 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 255 of 304 (674918)
10-04-2012 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by ramoss
10-03-2012 1:11 AM


Deuteronomy 28 is the same thing.. it is a list of 'these are the rewards you will get if you obey the lord, and these are the punishments you will receive if you disobey the lord. It's a 'prophecy' in so much it is a message from God (according to the author).. but it can't be 'full filled', since both the reward and the punishments are conditional. Do good, and good will come to you, else if you do bad, I'll punish you' type of details.. no "duel" prophecies.. and it has nothing to do with Jesus what so ever.. if you actually read it in context.
I did not use this a a verse specifically pertaining to Jesus. I used it as an example of God's prophetic words fulfilled more than once.
The way in which God fulfills His promises through the prophets is often clearly affected by the heart of the people. The calibration of their hearts towards His will can effect how God will carry out the fulfillment of prophecy.
This lesson is seen in a number of places in the OT. One striking one is the prophetic words of Elisha the prophet to king Jehoahaz in Second Kings 13:
quote:
And Elisha said to him, take a bow and arrow, and he took a bow and arrows to him. And he said to the king of Israel, Grasp the bow; and he grasped the bow, And Elisha put his hand over the hands of the king, and he said, Open the window toward the east; and he opened it. And Elisha said, Shoot; and he shot. And he said,
Jehovah's arrow of victory, an arrow of victory against Syria; for you will strike Syria in Aphek until you have consumed it.
And he said, take the arrows; and he took them. And he said to the king of Israel, Strike the ground; and he struck the ground three times then stopped.
And the man of God became angry with him and said, You should have struck it five or six times; then you would have struck Syria until you had consumed them. But now you shall strike Syria only three times. And Elisha died, and they buried him ..." (2 Kings 13:15-20a)


In this prophecy God seems to require of king Jehoahaz more resolve, more determination to grasp the opportunity of the divine will working. The first prophecy concerning opening the window called for simple obedience. But the additional prophecy called for greater resolve and coordination with the Almighty.
Clearly, a lesson is here. Man's is not just to wait passively for words of God to magically come true. Man is to be consecrated to God's purpose and affix his own will firmly to that of God's.
The reason some posters here are skeptical of the manner in which God fulfills prophecy at times, may be because they only expect mechanical adherance to certain words devoid of the moral and cooperative aspect of man's heart and will towards God's.
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 258 of 304 (674965)
10-04-2012 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Granny Magda
10-04-2012 10:57 AM


No, it's really not. The OT is not a Christian document and it's not a 1st Century document. Reading it as such only invites error.
The entire 66 books of the Bible are one revelation. I am not arguing for a "Christian document" as much as one revelation of God.
God's revelation is progressive and gradually unfolding.
Here's one Old Testament passage indicating that the whole world is to be God's audience:

"Turned to Me and be saved, All the ends of the earth, For I am God and there is no one else." (Isaiah 45:22)
Did you catch that? Not just Israel should turn to be saved but "all the ends of the earth".
So the Scriptures are aimed at the whole world. How will we know much about who He is unless we read about Him?
jaywill:
Paul wrote about the examples given in the OT for benefit of the latter age saints:
"Now these things occured as examples to us, that we should not be ones who lust after evil things, even as they also lusted. Neither become idolaters, as some of them did ... etc." (1 Cor. 10:6,7)
He is speaking of the behavior of the Hebrews in the 40 year wilderness journey. The things that occured were examples to the new covenant saints believing in Christ.
Granny:
I don't think that's correct. I read Paul as saying that these events serve as lessons, not that they foreshadow Christ.
One has to be discerning as to what is a type of Christ and what is something related to FOLLOWING Christ.
The Rock, the Manna, the Ark, the budded rod in the ark, the iron hammer head that floated upon the water, the tree thrown into the bitter water to make it sweet, even the entire good land of Canaan, etc. these are symbols pointing to Jesus Christ.
The example of the behavior of the Hebrews are related to our following of Christ. This is pretty much what I said -
"He is speaking of the behavior of the Hebrews in the 40 year wilderness journey. The things that occured were examples to the new covenant saints believing in Christ."
My phrase "saints believing in Christ" means Christians.
First Samuel 10:10-12 and First Samuel 19:23,24
But both of those examples are essentially the same; people called Saul "among the prophets" because of he was prophesying.
It is not just that he was prophesying but that he was a changed man. For the prophesy was that he would be turned into another man. So the exclamatory question is a proverb about this coming true.
However the writer of First Samuel points to two different instances as the source of people exclaming that prophesy had been fulfilled.
That it was on more than one occasion is of little importance.
I think things which we might easily take for granted are there very deliberately in Scripture. Samuel should have known that he was potentially introducing confusion by the contradiction. I have no reason to believe it was an oversight.
Rather as the Scripture was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit Samuel was moved to write that both occasions served as the backround to the people's proverb "Is Saul also among the prophets" . Ie. "My! Saul really has been turned into another man by the Spirit of God."
These are not really separate events. Certainly, it is not comparable to your arguments about Noah foreshadowing Jesus.
It is different in that Jesus is the New Testament age Noah and ark of Noah. But the matter of Saul being turned into another man through the Spirit that was upon the prophets is fulfilled in the same age, within one man's life span.
I agree the two examples are different. But they are similar too.
That argument takes two completely separate sources and two completely separate individuals and conflates them. This example draws exclusively from a single source about the life of a single person. There's no comparison.
There are other differences as well. But I do not eliminate the legitimacy of using them.
Let's take the Noah example. Let's consider the ark of Noah. We know that the Apostle Peter used the ark of Noah as a type of salvation in Christ in First Peter 3:20-21.
Now this short post will not be an exhaustive expounding of either Noah's flood or of First Peter 3:20-21. But it is noticed that God seems to have assured that a correspondence of type and antitype did occur.
The day the ark of Noah rested on dry land was the day on which Jesus Christ rose from the dead. I don't think it is coincidence or luck. I think the Divine Mind foreshadows something of the salvation of the travelers in Noah's ark with the redeemed in Christ.
The day of Christ's resurrection from the dead being foreshadowed by the day the ark of Noah came to rest upon dry land for a new beginning of life.
A couple of notes on this I submit.
quote:
The Bible is marvelous. Genesis 8:4 says that the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat on the seventeenth day of the the seventh month. If you read the Bible carefully along with history and the best lexicons, you will find that, at the time of the Passover in Egypt, the seventh month was changed to the first (Exo. 12:2). The Jews have two kinds of calendars, the civil calendar and the sacred calender. The civil calendar was the old one, and the sacred calender was the new one, which began from the first Passover. When God told the Israelites to have the Passover, He told them that that month had to be counted as the first month of the year. In Hebrew the name of that month was Abib (Exo. 13:4), which means sprouting, budding, fresh ears of corn. This signifies that, in the eyes of God, the Passover was counted as a new beginning of life. Why do I point this out? Because the Lord Jesus was crucified on the day of the Passover, on the fourteenth day of the month (Exo. 12:6; John 18:28). According to the sacred calendar, He was crucified in the first month, and according to the civil calendar, He was crucified in the seventh month, the same month when the ark rested upon the mount. The Lord Jesus was crucified on the fourteenth day of the month and was resurrected three days later. Thus, according to the sacred calender, Christ was resurrected on the seventeenth day of the first month. According to the civil calendar, it was on the seventeenth day of the seventh month, the very day that the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. So, in that early type of the ark resting upon the mountain, we were told the exact date of the resurrection of Christ. This is wonderful."
quote:
"Eight people emerged from the ark. Christ was resurrected on the first day of the week, i.e. the eighth day of the old week ... thus the number eight signifies resurrection. Since all the believers, the components of the church, were included in Christ's resurrection (Eph. 2:6; 1 Pet. 1:3), they are the reusrrected people."
Copied from Life Study of Genesis by Witness Lee, pgs 423,424, Living Stream Ministry.
I'm trying to understand what standards you require to deem something as prophetic. Apparently, you don't require much.
I don't have a list of dos and don'ts like a computer program. I do have some examples of the fulfillment of prophetic words in Scripture elsewhere to serve as comparisons.
Huh? There's no link between the two. they're from totally different authors, writing about different subjects at different times. You're acting as though the Bible were a single monolithic source; it's not, it's a patchwork of many different sources, by differing authors with differing intents. I think that your whole approach to reading these books is fundamentally flawed at that this is encouraging you to make serious errors.
From Genesis to Revelation there is an overall unity of purpose in this book. And I encourage you to get some "Christ tinted glasses" of faith in Jesus.
Or a good way to read the Bible and lay hold of this unity is to do the following, IMO - Read first a few times Revelation 21 and 22 the conclusion of the whole Bible. Get a good grasp of where everything climaxes, concludes, and consumates.
Now go back to Genesis and begin to read through. But always keep in mind what is the final destination unto which everything is leading. All things in the Bible, in one way or another, are headed towards this consumation of Christ and His Bride, of God and His living temple, of the Triune God and His City of life.
Everything, I think, is somehow related to arriving at that destination. If you would like me to give you a few examples in brief, I can. These stops along the way are little signs reminding us of where everything in the divine revelation is ultimately going to end up.
I am not above making errors. And theologians are not above making errors.
But before we get to Matthew refering to specific words in the book of Isaiah we have examples of prophetic words being fulfilled by God. Though it is difficult to keep God completely in our box (either religious box or skeptical box) we have examples of how He worked in the past.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Granny Magda, posted 10-04-2012 10:57 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by NoNukes, posted 10-05-2012 6:39 PM jaywill has replied
 Message 261 by Granny Magda, posted 10-06-2012 8:54 AM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 262 of 304 (675124)
10-06-2012 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Granny Magda
10-06-2012 8:54 AM


Well then, you're screwed.
Far from it. I just am aware that a total systemization of the Bible is probably not possible.
You have no criteria by which to judge prophecy.
We really have to first define "prophecy." Some prophecy is not predictive at all. We really haven't even pinned down what we mean here by prophecy.
I have been generally adhering to the assumption of this thread that we are talking about predictions. But there is a lot of prophecy which is not supernatural prediction of events.
Another way of phrasing the above quote is that you have no logical basis for judging whether something is prophetic or not.
Comparing to some examples of what we are discussing is a legitimate way to go about it. Deuteronomy did speak of discerning a true prophecy from a false one.
And we know there is plenty of reference to false and phony prophecy. So I may not have a flow chart. Perhaps someone does. But comparing the Matthew instance with other accepted fulfilled prophecies I think is valid if not exhaustively systematic with mathematical certainty.
You reject logic and make your judgements on a "feels good" basis.
I have not rejected logic and you probably are running on your own "feels bad" knee jerk skepticism.
There are discribed fullfilled prophetic words in the Old Testament with which we can compare our New Testament pronounced fulfilled prophecy in Matthew to.
This would be problematic in anybody, but in your case it's especially bad, since you are so ridiculously over keen to label the Bible as prophecy and worse, as Christian prophecy, even when the source is Jewish.
I think you are ringing a false alarm. The example of Samuel's prophecy over Saul and its dual fulfillment can be compared to Isaiah's prophecy and its reference to Ahaz's time and a portion of its words accplicable to the virgin birth of Jesus.
I am not nearly as lost as you'd like to think.
Without criteria to rule something in or out you have no basis upon which to make any claim of prophecy.
I don't think I could go to that extreme. But I could make the same charge of you. That is that you can see to it that no criteria will be suitable to verify that Jesus was the prophecied coming Messiah.
We have some prophecies that the OT says came true. Their manner can be compared to what a NT author says is prophecy come true. That is a valid way of ascertaining if the NT writer is saying something plausible.
certainly, you will not be able to persuade anybody who is not already a somewhat credulous Fundalegical Christian.
I never promised to persuade everybody. I present here usually reasons why I believe. And I deal with problems unbelievers have and explain why those "problems" are not problems for some of us Christians.
And the isolation of some words by Matthew to say Christ's birth fulfulled that, is not a problem to me.
In fact if you go back to the example of Christ refering to Isaiah 61 in Luke 4, Jesus "rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendent" before saying -
"Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing." (v.21)
Jesus read a portion of the 61rst chapter of Isaiah, stopped, rolled the scroll up and gave it to be put away. Then He said that the specific words He had just read had been fulfilled in their hearing.
If you go back to Isaiah 61 and read the verses after 1 and 2a you will see that He did not quote the passage about the year of "VENGENCE of our God."
He knew just what He wanted to refer to as having fulfillment in His coming on that day. He also knew to close the scroll and leave out those words which, perhaps, He was to fulfill on another day. Ie. vengence of God which could refer to His Second Coming.
So a portion of Isaiah's prophecy Christ says He fulfills in Luke 4. And a portion of Isaiah's prophecy Matthew says Christ fulfilled in Matthew 1.
What we have with you skeptics is a objection of foul play. "No, you cannot take a portion of the total chapter and say Jesus fulfilled the prophecy."
I think you're wrong. "These words" refer to the words Jesus read before He closed the book. And "what was spoken ... saying .." refers to the specific words alluded to by Matthew.
I don't think there's much point in my continuing this conversation ...
Bye.
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 263 of 304 (675125)
10-06-2012 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by NoNukes
10-05-2012 6:39 PM


Re: Numerology..
This type of reasoning is what I refer to as "Bible Worship".
No it is not "Bible Worship." It is exploring the significance of numbers in Scripture.
I only added it as a measure of interest to some more open minded readers who may be reading along. I would not push such a significance too far with a brand newcomer to Scripture.
But that some numbers do carry significance is apparently the view of Jesus Himself when He reminded His disciples of the loaves and fish miracles:

" And Jesus ... said, Why are you reasoning among yourselves, you of little faith, because you have no bread?
Do you not yet understand nor remember the five loaves of the five thousand and how many handbaskets you took up?
Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many baskets you took up? " (Matt. 16:8-10)
It seems that Jesus here expects the disciples to contemplate not only the miracles but the numbers of things associated with them. This, and the fact the the OT is often very exact in specifications of measurements and lengths of things leads some of us to believe the Holy Spirit indicated some things in numbers.
While it may not be the first thing I would point to in trying to persuade someone of the truth of the Bible, it is nonetheless with some interest. This is the kind of thing - if you can recieve it OK. But if not, OK.
It is, in fact, numerology of the highest order. Eight people = day eight?? Really?
A methodology can be taken to an extreme. I would not leave you with an impression that I endorse every book on quack Bible codes or Bible numerology.
There is something here to it. But it could be abused also. I don't think I abused it. And my expounding pointed to Christ and not to 9/11 or Kennedy's assasination or UFOs or John Lennon's murder or some other irrelevant triviality, Nostradamus style.
Christ's resurrection is indeed a new beginning. And it falls on the first day of a new week by the world wide calender. It matched the 8 persons who emmerged saved.
But if you think that is too fanciful, that's OK. That Jesus saves from the judgment of God, from the wickedness of the world, and rose from the dead for our new beginning? This I would emphasize you should not ignore. Put the numners aside if you wish. Don't miss the greater point. Jesus is our ark of Noah.
I have trouble wrapping my head around the fact this is what some people mean by Bible study. So if there was no global flood, or if some detail of it is not as written in Genesis, then Jesus wasn't the son of God? Really?
Once again. The number matter I thought might be edifying to some readers curiously looking on in the discussion.
I'd like to think that not every regular poster here feels commissioned (the forum "good ol boy" culture) to debunk the Christian faith at every turn, on every thread no matter WHAT the topic is.
I'd like to think that occasionally one who has touched the reality of Christ or is seeking Christ sincerely, might be edified by one of these finer points.
I am not going to hard debate the number significance issue here now.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by NoNukes, posted 10-05-2012 6:39 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by NoNukes, posted 10-06-2012 2:53 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 265 of 304 (675145)
10-06-2012 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by NoNukes
10-06-2012 2:53 PM


Re: Numerology and snippets
Numerology is not the Christian faith. This "significance of numbers" is no different from astrology.
Maybe the similarity is the other way around.
I have no doubt that the Creator seems to have tuned some numbers into creation for His own reasons.
And the significance of some numbers in Scripture is evident.
We are not using it to tell fortunes predict the future or events.
But taking the geneology of Christ in the book of Matthew. The author seems to have developed a scheme which reveals three stages of 14 generations each. But the actual count of generations is not actually as Matthew counts. By omissions and counting David in two catagories he comes up with the design.

"Thus all the generations from Abraham until David are fourteen generations, and from David until the deporation to Babylon, fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ, fourteen generations.
Hmmm, three catagories of people in Christ's geneology of 14 generations each. And he writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Don't tell me that no significance to the numbers is intended.
Twelve foundations to the city. Twelve manner of precious stones to the city. Twelve gates to the city. Twelve kinds of fruits borne by the tree of life in Revelation 21 and 22. Don't tell me that there is no significance to numbers in Revelation.
Seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3. Seven seals with seven trumpets with seven bowls of the wrath of God. Don't tell me there's no signigicance to numbers in the Bible.
I am a Christian, and what I am debunking isn't the Christian faith. It's something completely different, and thankfully, it is inessential to what Christ taught. At best numerology is harmless, but at worst, it misses the entire point.
With that statement I have little problem. With throwing out the baby with the bath water, I do have a problem.
And I don't use the significance of number use to distract from Christ. As you should have seen in my example, I used the 8th day and the 8 survivors in the ark to be related to the resurrection of Christ. It is essential.
The resurrection of Christ is very central to the Bible. So you'll have to find your "worst" misuses of number study somewhere else.
Once again, you demonstrate your ability to snippet the Bible.
"Snippets" as you call them, are also used by the Apostle Paul.
In one instance he builds a major concept on just the tense of a word whether it was plural or singular -
"But to Abraham were the promises spoken to his seed. He does not say, "And to the seeds," as concerning many, but as concerning one: "And to your seed," who is Christ " (Galatians 3:16)
How do you like that "snippet" there? Paul turns a major doctrinal concept just based on the presence or absence of one letter!
Jesus did not suggest that the specific numbers mentioned were of holy significance because they corresponded to any earthly or heavenly thing having those same numbers. He was pointing out that the disciples had missed the significance of a miracle performed before their eyes The miracle would have been the same if there had been six loaves and six thousand, with 200 handbaskets taken up after everyone had eaten.
I think He asked how many baskets they took up because it was significant. He could have been general. But He went over the amounts of things rather specifically.
While I admit that He did not elaborate. And we could err in attempting to elaborate, that it seems meaningful to Him is evident.
This is like Jesus writing in the sand in chapter 8. No one knows what He was writing. And we can only speculate. But it had some meaning I am sure.
While you regard 40 years in the wilderness, 40 days journey of Elijah, or 40 days of Christ in the wilderness as coincidental, I would say 40 has some relation to trial in relation to following God.
That's about the simplist example where you see coincidence but many other Bible students detect significance.
Or five wise virgins and five foolish ones.
Or five brothers left alive after the rich man went to Hades.
Significance of five, probably related to man's responsibility, is intended.
I have to dismiss your dismissal of numerical significance seen in Scripture. But if you find it a distraction, that is ok. I would not want you to be distracted from Christ in any way.
But speak of your own distraction.
IMO, numerology shouldn't be pushed with anyone.
The Holy Spirit saw to mention 12 in relation to a number of things in the New Jerusalem. So it invites some of us to consider these things with no sense of offending our Christian conscience.
I think you are over reacting.
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This message is a reply to:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 304 of 304 (705704)
08-30-2013 6:58 PM


Jesus, after His resurrection, trained His disciples over a period of 40 days to realize that He was with them though they could no see Him.
Jesus trained His early disciples to live by His invisible presence. This was crucial in God's purpose - for men and women to live in oneness with Christ who, in addition to rising from the dead, became a life giving Spirit to indwell His believers.
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Not only did Jesus train the disciples to realize that He was with them though they could not see Him. He also trained them that He was going to be within many of their Christian brothers and sisters as members of His mystical Body.
For this reason, outwardly, the personal appearance may vary. Inwardly the person was joined to Christ, associated with Christ, and indwelt with by Christ. Each member of the NT church had Christ living in her or him and ALL the disciples should treat one another accordingly.
Skeptics have to offer alternative explanations of why a sizable number of Jews suddenly made such changes in long held traditions, Ie. the Saturday main day worship to the "Lord's Day" - first day of the new week to celebrate the life of Jesus.
Skeptics also have to offer alternative explanations to scores of Jews discontinuing animal offerings in favor of believing that the man Jesus of Nazareth had offered ONE and FINAL sacrificial offering of Himself for all time.
Skeptics can also explain the mention of 500 eyewitnesses of the resurrected Jesus that the Apostle Paul argued could mostly be still consulted with to verify the apostolic teaching of the resurrected Christ - (First Cor. 15:5-11).
Mass hallucination is unlikely.
That Paul fabricated such a large and mostly available body of eyewitnesses is unlikely.
God is about dispensing the Spirit of Christ into people. Millions have claimed God and Christ became real to them upon opening their innermost heart and spirit to Jesus and the Gospel. In short a vast number of fellow human beings claim that Jesus is available which would be perfectly consistent with what He Himself was teaching.
Preparing His disciples for His death and resurrection He said this:
"But I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. " (John 16:7)
It is expedient that Jesus ascend physically to the right hand of God somewhere at the peak of all being - in the third heaven. If He did not the Spirit of Reality - the Comforter - the Holy Spirit who is Christ in His pneumatic form, would not come to be IN the disciples.
So after the resurrection Jesus did a number of things to transition His disciples to understand that He was now going to be the Holy Spirit living within their spirit -as He had also promised -
"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We [Father and Son] will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
We Christians testify that we know Jesus rose from the dead, because this expediency has indeed taken place as He promised. Jesus Christ can come to us and make an abode with us. He can be Christ IN us as the life giving Holy Spirit. T
As the skeptic places all his priorities in physical proofs of Christ's resurrection Christ and God put the right amount of emphasis upon this. And the Triune God put emphasis ALSO on the expediency of the living and available Christ coming to make an abode within His believers. This God deems today as the main witness He wants to the world for the truth of Christ having been raised from the dead.
The skeptic only cares for grandstanding which proved inadequate to really change lives. God was seen on Mt. Sinai for 40 days and the people grew weary and unbelieving, making a golden calf and wanting to return to Egypt.
Grandstanding in a visible way has its limitations. God's priorities were in changed lives of those who grasped the reality of the living and available Son of God.

  
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