Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 89 (8890 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 02-15-2019 4:27 PM
170 online now:
AZPaul3, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat), Tangle, Theodoric (5 members, 165 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 847,540 Year: 2,577/19,786 Month: 659/1,918 Week: 247/266 Day: 19/92 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
89
10
1112
...
22NextFF
Author Topic:   Can You define God?
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 136 of 318 (675253)
10-09-2012 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Straggler
10-09-2012 12:50 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I believe it's likely that GOD exists.

However, as long as I am alive I see no way to provide any supporting evidence of that.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 12:50 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 1:06 PM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 137 of 318 (675255)
10-09-2012 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by jar
10-09-2012 12:52 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
jar writes:

I believe it's likely that GOD exists.

All believers in all gods believe it likely (or in some cases certain) that their god(s) exist.

When it comes down to it there is nothing to distinguish your belief in GOD from anyone else's belief in any other god/God is there?

jar writes:

I think it is very unlikely any god(s) exist except as a human construct.

There we have it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 12:52 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 1:09 PM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 138 of 318 (675256)
10-09-2012 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Straggler
10-09-2012 1:06 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
There you have what?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 1:06 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 1:12 PM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 139 of 318 (675257)
10-09-2012 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by jar
10-09-2012 1:09 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Look jar you are an old dog and you have been peddling this god, God, GOD trick for a long time. I dont expect to be able to dissuade you from it. But this Im just being nuanced defence of your self-serving, belief-re-enforcing definitions just doesnt wash.

The idea that hijacking commonly used terms and redefining them (such that the object of your own belief is elevated by definition above all those other human-construct-god-concepts) is the path to clarity and nuance rather than a method of imposing your assumptions into discussions about the existence of supernatural creators - Is ridiculous.

But Im sure the nuance will continue.....

jar writes:

There you have what?

The special pleading?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 1:09 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 1:15 PM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 140 of 318 (675259)
10-09-2012 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Straggler
10-09-2012 1:12 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
What special pleading?

The topic is "Can you define god?"

I responded to the topic.

I explained MY position.

I did not ask you to adopt my position.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 1:12 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 1:27 PM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 141 of 318 (675260)
10-09-2012 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by jar
10-09-2012 1:15 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
jar writes:

What special pleading?

The special pleading that discludes your particular supernatural creator from being just one of those other human-construct-gods.

jar writes:

The topic is "Can you define god?"

It is.

jar writes:

I responded to the topic.

You responded in the way you respond to any theism related topic. You started bandying around your own self-serving definitions of GOD, God and god.

jar writes:

I explained MY position.

Relentlessly. And I explained some of the inconsistencies your definitions result in - e.g. a theist who doesn't believe in any god(s)

jar writes:

I did not ask you to adopt my position.

Oh well that is OK then. I guess you can say whatever you want and we should all just accept it without comment


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 1:15 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 1:39 PM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 142 of 318 (675262)
10-09-2012 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Straggler
10-09-2012 1:27 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
How do you get "we should all just accept it without comment" from "I did not ask you to adopt my position"?

I am and will continue to express and try to explain my position; for example "I am a theist who believes GOD exists and that God(s) and god(s) are attempts by humans who are limited by the fact that being human so far we can only experience or describe anything in terms of what we see in this universe to describe what is actually beyond anything we can experience or describe."


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 1:27 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 1:47 PM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 143 of 318 (675264)
10-09-2012 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by jar
10-09-2012 1:39 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
You are a theist (by any common definition) because you believe in the existence of a supernatural creator being (which is a god by any common definition).

It really is that simple.

jar writes:

"I am a theist who believes GOD exists and that God(s) and god(s) are attempts by humans who are limited by the fact that being human so far we can only experience or describe anything in terms of what we see in this universe to describe what is actually beyond anything we can experience or describe."

Yes I know what you believe. Quite why you think your personal beliefs are a basis for defining anything remains a bit of a mystery however......?

jar writes:

How do you get "we should all just accept it without comment" from "I did not ask you to adopt my position"?

Where did you get the idea I thought you wanted me to adopt your position merely from my commenting upon it?

Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 1:39 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 2:04 PM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 144 of 318 (675266)
10-09-2012 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Straggler
10-09-2012 1:47 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Too funny.

Did you read:

quote:
How do you get "we should all just accept it without comment" from "I did not ask you to adopt my position"?

Did you say "I guess you can say whatever you want and we should all just accept it without comment"?

Have I ever said that you should not comment about anything?

I presented my beliefs solely to try to explain what I believe explains why there have been so many different god(s) and God(s) presented by humans over the history of modern man.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 1:47 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 2:13 PM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 145 of 318 (675268)
10-09-2012 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by jar
10-09-2012 2:04 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Yawn.

Ignoring all topic related points and going on a you-said-I-said distraction is another of your much used debate tactics when in a spot.

Seeing as we're both still here and both seem bored enough to keep conversing hows abouts we consider the topic from a fresh (and possibly less contentious) perspective?

What is it that defines things as "god(s)"...?

I (earlier) put forward a definition involving supernatural creators/controllers of aspects of observable reality and you (earlier) intimated that a "god" is whatever people decide to call a "god".

With that in mind I'd be interested in your answers to the following:

  • If people believe me (or you if you prefer) to be a god does that make me/you an actual god?

  • If human belief alone is not enough then what are the qualifying criteria for being a god?

  • Have you ever seen the "Life of Brian"....?

    Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 144 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 2:04 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 146 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 2:26 PM Straggler has responded

      
  • jar
    Member
    Posts: 30934
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 146 of 318 (675269)
    10-09-2012 2:26 PM
    Reply to: Message 145 by Straggler
    10-09-2012 2:13 PM


    Re: GOD is NOT a god
    If people believe me (or you if you prefer) to be a god does that make me/you an actual god?

    If people believe you are a god then yes, you may be a god.

    If people believe I am a god they are simply wrong. I know I am not a god.

    If human belief alone is not enough then what are the qualifying criteria for being a god?

    Human belief is enough to define a god.

    Have you ever seen the "Life of Brian"....?

    Many times. The first time was likely in the very early 80s. Still watch it every decade or so.


    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 145 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 2:13 PM Straggler has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 147 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 2:37 PM jar has responded
     Message 152 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 3:02 AM jar has responded

      
    Straggler
    Member
    Posts: 10284
    From: London England
    Joined: 09-30-2006
    Member Rating: 3.6


    Message 147 of 318 (675271)
    10-09-2012 2:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 146 by jar
    10-09-2012 2:26 PM


    Re: GOD is NOT a god
    Straggler writes:

    If people believe me (or you if you prefer) to be a god does that make me/you an actual god?

    jar writes:

    If people believe you are a god then yes, you may be a god.

    Well I suppose I might be... But is their belief alone enough on which to apply that term? If not - What else do I need to qualify as a genuine god?

    jar writes:

    If people believe I am a god they are simply wrong. I know I am not a god.

    Assuming they do believe you are a god - What is it that you are lacking which makes them wrong in their belief?

    Strags writes:

    Have you ever seen the "Life of Brian"....?

    jar writes:

    Many times. The first time was likely in the very early 80s. Still watch it every decade or so.

    Cool. It's a great film. But it highlights the error in defining things in terms of what people believe.

    JINKY is the omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe (and all else) who happens to choose to manifest himself as a giant purple squirrel.

    JINKY is a god regardless of what anyone does or doesn't believe. Because being a "god" isn't dependent on human conviction. It's a term we apply to a certain sort of conceptual being (whether it actually exists or not)


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 146 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 2:26 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 148 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 2:47 PM Straggler has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 30934
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 148 of 318 (675272)
    10-09-2012 2:47 PM
    Reply to: Message 147 by Straggler
    10-09-2012 2:37 PM


    Re: GOD is NOT a god
    Well I suppose I might be... But is their belief alone enough on which to apply that term? If not - What else do I need to qualify as a genuine god?

    None that I can think of.

    Assuming they do believe you are a god - What is it that you are lacking which makes them wrong in their belief?

    It's not what I lack but rather what I am; I am human.


    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 147 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 2:37 PM Straggler has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 158 by Straggler, posted 10-10-2012 1:07 PM jar has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 12025
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 149 of 318 (675273)
    10-09-2012 2:48 PM
    Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
    04-21-2012 5:37 PM


    Re: Defing God
    Ringo writes:

    If there is only one God, what does a name distinguish Him from?

    gods, I suppose. And I too tend to use jars description, though perhaps differently than he does. GOD, by definition of the word, is indeed beyond description or definition. The word merely gathers all that power and wisdom and whatever else into a term.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 34 by ringo, posted 04-21-2012 5:37 PM ringo has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 12025
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 150 of 318 (675282)
    10-09-2012 7:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 131 by Straggler
    10-09-2012 9:35 AM


    Re: GOD is NOT a god
    Where are you getting 50/50 from?
    GOD either exists or does NOT exist. Where are you getting "likely" from?

    A supernatural intelligent creator IS a definition.
    Yes, but that is about as far as we can go. though some Christians extrapolate the character of Jesus as well as OT writings at trying to conceptualize GOD. My belief is that GOD is beyond definition or conceptualization...understanding is a better word.
    Of course there is a human construct!! How can anyone claim to believe in something if they have absolutely no conception of what it is they believe in?

    The very idea of a conceptless concept is absurd!!!!!

    Are you suggesting that an idea without evidence or concept is absurd? Logical, perhaps...but why do you have problems believing in a power greater than the capability of the human mind to define?
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 131 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2012 9:35 AM Straggler has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 164 by Straggler, posted 10-10-2012 1:30 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Prev1
    ...
    89
    10
    1112
    ...
    22NextFF
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.0 Beta
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019