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Author Topic:   Can You define God?
onifre
Member (Idle past 997 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 166 of 318 (675347)
10-10-2012 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by jar
10-10-2012 1:30 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I believe that GOD is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen, but that is simply my belief and has nothing to do with what GOD might actually be.

Here's where my brain gets twisted:

If you believe god to be the creator of EVERYTHING, what else can he be? Obviously he can create anything else. You and Phat seem to cover it all with your concepts.

If you are wrong, as you say it may be possible, then it means god gets demoted to a creator of only some things, or only a few things.

That makes no sense to me. How do you make that make sense to you?

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:30 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:44 PM onifre has responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 167 of 318 (675348)
10-10-2012 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by jar
10-10-2012 1:29 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
jar writes:

I'm not at all sure what "supernatural" is..

Then let me enlighten you with yet another common definition:

quote:
1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.
3. Of or relating to a deity.
4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.

jar writes:

But GOD, if GOD exists is completely beyond anything we find in the Natural World.

Which would make him supernatural. It generally is one of the qualifications for being a god.

jar writes:

And remember, I do distinguish between GOD, God and god.

I am well acquainted with the fact that you impose your personal beliefs on discussions in the form of self-serving definitions - Yes

jar writes:

I see no reason to think you might not be a god.

Well my lack of supernatural abilities would seem to be a rather fatal flaw in my quest for godly status.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:29 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:48 PM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 168 of 318 (675349)
10-10-2012 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by onifre
10-10-2012 1:38 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I'm not at all sure that it does make sense, but it's the best I can do.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 1:38 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 2:16 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 169 of 318 (675350)
10-10-2012 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Straggler
10-10-2012 1:39 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Yes, I'm familiar with those definitions, but as i said, I see no way to actually test those things when something that is truly supernatural is involved. The most that I can see would be to move something into an unexplained file.

Your lack of supernatural powers (whatever they are) would preclude you from being GOD but not God or god.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Straggler, posted 10-10-2012 1:39 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Straggler, posted 10-11-2012 8:15 AM jar has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 997 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 170 of 318 (675352)
10-10-2012 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by jar
10-10-2012 1:25 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Sure, unicorns or love or honor or humor.

But a unicorn is a horse with a horn on it. It's NOT "anything you want it to be."

Love, honor, and humor are very real chemical reactions in your body that can be measured when experienced. The wordss we use are simply us giving those chemical reactions a name. But there is a clear distinction between love and hate, or funny and serious, honor and dishonor - they are NOT anything you want it to be.

Electron, love, honor, humor, are all things experienced by human beings be it by listening, looking at it, or having chemical reactions. God does not fit that bill.

God, as you describe it being "anything you want it to be" loses all meaning with that definition.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:25 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:53 PM onifre has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 171 of 318 (675353)
10-10-2012 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by onifre
10-10-2012 1:49 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Not quite.

God or god as I use it have meanings.

GOD though is beyond my capability to define.

I can tell you about my beliefs related to GOD but what I tell you reflects nothing but my beliefs and not what GOD might be.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 1:49 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 2:09 PM jar has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 997 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 172 of 318 (675355)
10-10-2012 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by jar
10-10-2012 1:53 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I can tell you about my beliefs related to GOD but what I tell you reflects nothing but my beliefs and not what GOD might be.

But you did define it, you said god can be anything you want it to be. That is you defining what god might be.

And as you say, god can be anything, and as such if god can be anything the entire concept has no meaning.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:53 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:19 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 997 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 173 of 318 (675356)
10-10-2012 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by jar
10-10-2012 1:44 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I'm not at all sure that it does make sense, but it's the best I can do.

Yeah but, what are you actually doing?

You said you believe god is the creator of everything, but you could be wrong. That means god might just be the creator of a few things, or nothing at all. Who knows? This whole train of thought falls apart.

You said god can be anything at all, but then claim you can't define it. That contradicts itself.

You claim god is unknowable yet, still call it a god by your definition. If it's "unknowable" then what are you even describing? Nothing really. Claiming both contradicts itself too.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense, but I don't think you've done anything other confuse us.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:44 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:20 PM onifre has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 174 of 318 (675357)
10-10-2012 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by onifre
10-10-2012 2:09 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
No, I said that a God or god can be anything a human creates; I said that I cannot define GOD.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 2:09 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 2:36 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 175 of 318 (675358)
10-10-2012 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by onifre
10-10-2012 2:16 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Again, GOD is not God or god.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 2:16 PM onifre has not yet responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 997 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 176 of 318 (675360)
10-10-2012 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by jar
10-10-2012 2:19 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I said that I cannot define GOD.

But jar, YOU are the only one here saying GOD is not God or god/s. You have clearly defined this word: GOD

You said GOD is the creator of everything - seen/unseen. That IS your definition.

And again I will point out the contradiction in that you also claim that GOD is unknowable, meaning, it is unknowable if GOD is different from God or god/s and if in fact GOD is the creator of all things.

You've done nothing here really, other than confuse terms and contradict yourself.

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:19 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:49 PM onifre has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 177 of 318 (675361)
10-10-2012 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by onifre
10-10-2012 2:36 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
So you claim.

But where have I said that GOD is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen.

I believe I've been very consistent in saying that is simply my belief and NOT what GOD actually is.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 2:36 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 3:08 PM jar has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 997 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 178 of 318 (675362)
10-10-2012 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by jar
10-10-2012 2:49 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I believe I've been very consistent in saying that is simply my belief and NOT what GOD actually is.

I get that it's your belief, I wasn't trying to state otherwise. My point is that your belief contradicts itself and gets very confusing. Also, you define the term by saying GOD is different from God or god/s. You also define the term by saying GOD is unknowable.

I mean, how do you even know that? Well, because you are defining what GOD is. How else would you know so much about this unknowable GOD if you didn't?

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:49 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 3:17 PM onifre has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 179 of 318 (675363)
10-10-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by onifre
10-10-2012 3:08 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
GOD, if GOD exists, really is different than being natural. Since I am just a human living in the natural world how can I say what being other than natural really is?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 3:08 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by onifre, posted 10-10-2012 3:33 PM jar has responded
 Message 186 by Straggler, posted 10-11-2012 8:19 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 997 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 180 of 318 (675364)
10-10-2012 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by jar
10-10-2012 3:17 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
GOD, if GOD exists, really is different than being natural.

How do you know any of that if you're also saying you don't know anything about it?

It sounds absurd.

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 3:17 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 3:34 PM onifre has responded

    
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