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Author Topic:   Yet another Congressman who doesn't accept the theory of evolution
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 16 of 231 (675205)
10-08-2012 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by NoNukes
10-07-2012 11:00 AM


Re: Does he really believe that?
Representative Broun has no immediate need to appeal to voters.
A sad state of affairs really. Which is worse? That he actually believes these myths to be true or that he is lying about believing it. Sort of a lose-lose situation.
Most people probably think and hope that the doctors they visit are scientists.
It sure is odd. I guess in the bible belt they hope that they are scientists who believe in talking snakes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by NoNukes, posted 10-07-2012 11:00 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 231 (675208)
10-08-2012 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
10-07-2012 9:58 PM


Re: Yes, he's tea party.
, he's on the Health Committee and Natural Resources.
I didn't know that. But from what I can read about him, he seems to exactly fit every bad generalization of a Tea Party member I've ever heard. Yes, besides being a creationist, Broun a birther, and a global climate change denier, and a hater of all things Muslim, equates Obama with Nazi's, wants to change the 14th amendment and thinks English is an endangered language, hates each of unions, the EPA, gays, and separation of church and state with a passion.
And here I am excoriating him for not believing in evolution, embryology and the big bang theory.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
It's not too late to register to vote. State Registration Deadlines

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 Message 15 by jar, posted 10-07-2012 9:58 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 988 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 18 of 231 (675637)
10-13-2012 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by NoNukes
10-07-2012 2:17 PM


Re: Reflect the electorate
So based on that link, it appears that the more you go to church, the stupider you get.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by NoNukes, posted 10-07-2012 2:17 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 231 (675639)
10-13-2012 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by roxrkool
10-13-2012 6:00 PM


Re: Reflect the electorate
So based on that link, it appears that the more you go to church, the stupider you get.
Let's not confuse mere correlation with causation.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Well, you may still have time to register to vote. Even North Carolinians can still register for early voting. State Registration Deadlines

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 Message 18 by roxrkool, posted 10-13-2012 6:00 PM roxrkool has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 20 of 231 (675640)
10-13-2012 11:49 PM


Representative Broun's beliefs may be wacky, but get back to me when he has actually done something that is demonstrably damaging to our country ok?

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Coyote, posted 10-13-2012 11:56 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 24 by Larni, posted 10-14-2012 7:06 AM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 25 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2012 9:41 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 21 of 231 (675642)
10-13-2012 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by foreveryoung
10-13-2012 11:49 PM


Representative Broun's beliefs may be wacky, but get back to me when he has actually done something that is demonstrably damaging to our country ok?
Does not accepting myth over reality bother you?
Don't you think that ignoring reality is inherently dangerous!????

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by foreveryoung, posted 10-13-2012 11:49 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
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foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(2)
Message 22 of 231 (675644)
10-14-2012 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Coyote
10-13-2012 11:56 PM


He isn't ignoring reality. He is not yet convinced it is reality. He probably has partial information anyway and has been led astray by others. The big bang and evolution are not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. By evolution, I mean all life descending from one common ancestor. As for embryology? I really don't know what his beef is with that, but I am sure it conflicts with his religious beliefs somehow. It is not quite the same as denying the reality of a tornado or the sheer cliff in front of you. When either not believing in evolution or the big bang causes harm to yourself or others, then I will give it the description of denying reality. Until then, it is really a harmless denial IMO.

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 23 of 231 (675648)
10-14-2012 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by foreveryoung
10-14-2012 12:50 AM


It is not quite the same as denying the reality of a tornado or the sheer cliff in front of you. When either not believing in evolution or the big bang causes harm to yourself or others, then I will give it the description of denying reality.
That's not actually the criterion for denying reality, though, is it? If I denied that lemons were yellow, then it wouldn't harm me, you, or anyone else, but I'd still be denying reality, because they really are yellow.

This message is a reply to:
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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 24 of 231 (675654)
10-14-2012 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by foreveryoung
10-13-2012 11:49 PM


Representative Broun's beliefs may be wacky, but get back to me when he has actually done something that is demonstrably damaging to our country ok?
Don't you think that anyone with wacky ideas shout not be in a position of political power?
As a Brit this kind of talk would be a huge issue and one that would be lambasted significantly. When I see this kind of talk (apparently) being viewed as acceptable it's amazing.
Many non Americans would see this attitude as hopelessly provincial.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by foreveryoung, posted 10-13-2012 11:49 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 231 (675662)
10-14-2012 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by foreveryoung
10-13-2012 11:49 PM


Representative Broun's beliefs may be wacky, but get back to me when he has actually done something that is demonstrably damaging to our country ok?
I have to agree with foreveryoung on this. Broun appears to be the single most ineffective member of Congress ever elected. None of his proposed bills ever get anywhere. No harm, no foul.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Well, you may still have time to register to vote. Even North Carolinians can still register for early voting. State Registration Deadlines

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by foreveryoung, posted 10-13-2012 11:49 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 26 of 231 (675700)
10-15-2012 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Larni
10-14-2012 7:06 AM


As I recall, to be provincial is to think in ways that are peculiar to your locality. All you are saying is that americans think in ways that are peculiar to us and that the rest of western civilization is alarmed by such thinking. This is fine with us. All we have to do is get along with the rest of you; we don't have to fit in with your clique.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Larni, posted 10-14-2012 7:06 AM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by dwise1, posted 10-15-2012 2:10 AM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 31 by Theodoric, posted 10-15-2012 8:02 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 27 of 231 (675703)
10-15-2012 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by foreveryoung
10-15-2012 12:49 AM


As I recall, to be provincial is to think in ways that are peculiar to your locality.
Ah! Duel by Dictionary!
Dictionaries try to map out the usage of words. And you will find that many words have more than one meaning, so choosing one meaning out of many is one way to deceive. I'm sure there's a name for that kind of fallacy.
What matters is not what the dictionary says, but rather what the person using that word means by it. For one thing, the person using the word might not be applying a dictionary definition. For another, you might be picking the wrong definition out of your dictionary, including the definitions that your dictionary didn't happen to carry.
Duel by Dictionary is usually a last-resort measure. Though it could be a valid approach to take if you are inviting your opponent to divulge his particular meaning of the terms that he used ... which is not what you were doing.
All you are saying is that americans think in ways that are peculiar to us and that the rest of western civilization is alarmed by such thinking. This is fine with us. All we have to do is get along with the rest of you; we don't have to fit in with your clique.
We're not a metropolitan species, but rather a tribal one. Our brains are wired for dealing with groups of a particular size, about the size of a tribe. Even the mega-churches realize this when they organize themselves into smaller groups; first and foremost a church is a community, but we cannot feel a part of a 100's of thousands large group. So even the international community fits into this tribal model, with individual nations serving as individuals and its leaders and representatives providing those "individuals'" "personality."
So think about a local community. A town or a student body. You've been a member of both. Ever encounter any nut-jobs? How well do they fit into the community? Would you give any of them a leadership role in the community? Or would you rather avoid them? Whenever they attempt to engage you in conversation, don't you utter non-committal say-nothings as you desperately try to disengage from them? And what would happen if one of these bat-shit-crazy wing-nuts were to rise to a position of leadership within the community? Wouldn't the sane members of that community have real reason to be concerned?
Basically, isn't that what wing-nut whack-job "provincial" nonsense from members of the US government communicates to the rest of the world? And since we are in a leading leadership role in the international community, a super-power as a result of WWII and thereafter, wouldn't that be reason for the rest of the international community to be concerned for the sanity of the USA?
The President of the United States of America has access to nuclear codes for launching nuclear death upon this earth many times over, to understate the situation. When G.W.Bush was elected President by the activist judges, a fellow chief, a Religious Programs Chief Petty Officer (RPs provide administrative, protective, and other support to the Chaplain Corps), expressed excitement that a "true believer" had been "elected" to our highest office. I offered him a simple scenario: if a true believer in the Apocalypse were to be given access to the means of speeding up the Apocalypse, would you really want that to happen? My brother chief, the RPC, grew silent, very pensive, and rather worried.
It's not a question of fitting into any "clique." It's a question of whether we are sane enough to continue our leadership role in the international community. If we were some minor back-water country, such as we were earlier in the past century, nobody would care. But we are the 500-pound gorilla at the tea party. Everybody cares what the 500-pound gorilla will do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by foreveryoung, posted 10-15-2012 12:49 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by foreveryoung, posted 10-15-2012 2:37 AM dwise1 has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 28 of 231 (675704)
10-15-2012 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by dwise1
10-15-2012 2:10 AM


dwise1 writes:
Basically, isn't that what wing-nut whack-job "provincial" nonsense from members of the US government communicates to the rest of the world?
The rest of the world is just looking for an excuse to think of us that way anyway. Believing in a few crazy things doesn't mean you are a total looney tunes overall. You can still be quite intelligent and productive contributor even though you don't believe in the holy grail of evolution, big bang and a few other things the outside world hold dear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by dwise1, posted 10-15-2012 2:10 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by dwise1, posted 10-15-2012 3:53 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 30 by Larni, posted 10-15-2012 5:12 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 29 of 231 (675705)
10-15-2012 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by foreveryoung
10-15-2012 2:37 AM


DWise1 writes:
Basically, isn't that what wing-nut whack-job "provincial" nonsense from members of the US government communicates to the rest of the world?
The rest of the world is just looking for an excuse to think of us that way anyway. Believing in a few crazy things doesn't mean you are a total looney tunes overall. You can still be quite intelligent and productive contributor even though you don't believe in the holy grail of evolution, big bang and a few other things the outside world hold dear.
Sorry, but I have to call "bullshit" on that.
The rest of the world does not need to look for any excuse; we provide them with far too many. It's not just evolution and big bang and other things. Rather, it's the entire fundamentalist-cult bat-shit-crazy contrary-to-fact mentality.
In your local community, the community leader shows up to every meeting wearing a tin-foil hat to block out the aliens' signals. And you're trying to tell me that's not pure bat-shit crazy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by foreveryoung, posted 10-15-2012 2:37 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 30 of 231 (675708)
10-15-2012 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by foreveryoung
10-15-2012 2:37 AM


Yes one can be quite productive in one's job despite crazy notions but would you really want a government where some based their ideas on a Bronze Age book?
And just so we both know what we are talking about his interpretation of said book need not match yours.
Is that what you want?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by foreveryoung, posted 10-15-2012 2:37 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
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