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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
Phat
Member
Posts: 12177
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 257 of 670 (675634)
10-13-2012 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by jar
10-13-2012 4:35 PM


Re: Oh No! He isn't supposed to be like that!
just like at work I always tell myself that its good to attempt to have a relationship with or get along or at the very least understand the Boss.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by jar, posted 10-13-2012 4:35 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by jar, posted 10-13-2012 5:57 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 258 of 670 (675636)
10-13-2012 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Phat
10-13-2012 5:31 PM


Re: Oh No! He isn't supposed to be like that!
Lost me there.

What you want or feel comfortable doing is totally unrelated to what GOD might be or do.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Phat, posted 10-13-2012 5:31 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 10-14-2012 12:28 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12177
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 259 of 670 (675643)
10-14-2012 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by jar
10-13-2012 5:57 PM


Unknowable...Believe It Or Not
In any good debate, it is wise to attempt to see your opponents position. Why, in your opinion, do some people not allow themselves to believe something that they cannot define nor understand?

Edited by Phat, : fixed


This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by jar, posted 10-13-2012 5:57 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 10-14-2012 9:57 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 260 of 670 (675665)
10-14-2012 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Phat
10-14-2012 12:28 AM


Re: Unknowable...Believe It Or Not
Because they are smart, reasonable, logical and rational and have examined the God(s) and god(s) that have been put forward and find they don't stand up to examination and testing.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 10-14-2012 12:28 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 01-07-2014 1:52 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12177
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 261 of 670 (715581)
01-07-2014 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by jar
10-14-2012 9:57 AM


Is It A Cop Out To Believe In Communion?
jar writes:

As I said, the Map is not the Territory. When you buy a map you must always understand that it is just a representation and not reality. When you come to a bridge don't rely on the map; look and make sure it is really there.
Religion is taught properly is a map, a guide to how to live your life. Like maps, no religion is actually the territory, they are all just guides and so like maps, will have places where they are wrong, incomplete, not up to date, confusing.

That is true of any and all religions.

Christian teaching are about how to live this life, feed the hungry, cloth the naked, shelter the homeless, heal the sick or injured. educate the ignorant, comfort the sorrowful. It's work, hard, often unpleasant work.

But not all Chapters of Club Christian teach that. Many teach the easy and pleasant, "Are you saved", "Not perfect, just saved", "Born Again" and the cop-out of cop-outs, Original Sin.

I agree that we are to be helpful to others as we live this life. I would argue, however, that a time of daily prayer and meditation is useful in order to commune with (what I believe to be) God as we know Him. I realize that you often use the ant analogy to proclaim the unlikelihood of such an interaction, and of course you are free to believe that. I believe that Christian teaching is not simply found in books, however. Christian teaching is alive and interactive....between humans and between God and humans.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 10-14-2012 9:57 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by jar, posted 01-07-2014 2:18 PM Phat has responded
 Message 263 by nwr, posted 01-07-2014 5:31 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 262 of 670 (715583)
01-07-2014 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
01-07-2014 1:52 PM


Re: Is It A Cop Out To Believe In Communion?
What does any of that mean?

Phat writes:

I would argue, however, that a time of daily prayer and meditation is useful in order to commune with (what I believe to be) God as we know Him.

Why commune? What value is there in communing? When you pray do you ask for things to be given to you are do you ask how you can do for others?

Phat writes:

I believe that Christian teaching is not simply found in books, however. Christian teaching is alive and interactive....between humans and between God and humans.

What does that mean? What Christian teaching? How can teaching be alive or interactive? What and when should we teach God?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 01-07-2014 1:52 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 01-08-2014 9:34 AM jar has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


(1)
Message 263 of 670 (715597)
01-07-2014 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
01-07-2014 1:52 PM


Re: Is It A Cop Out To Believe In Communion?
What's to "believe in"? It is just a tradition and celebration.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 01-07-2014 1:52 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Phat, posted 01-08-2014 9:22 AM nwr has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12177
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 264 of 670 (715670)
01-08-2014 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by nwr
01-07-2014 5:31 PM


Re: Is It A Cop Out To Believe In Communion?
nwr writes:

What's to "believe in"? It is just a tradition and celebration.

Well...for starters...

quote:
John 4:24
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
Communion is more than a ritual or a celebration. Communion actually involves God. At least that's my belief.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by nwr, posted 01-07-2014 5:31 PM nwr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by nwr, posted 01-08-2014 9:46 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12177
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 265 of 670 (715673)
01-08-2014 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by jar
01-07-2014 2:18 PM


Re: Is It A Cop Out To Believe In Communion?
jar writes:

How can teaching be alive or interactive? What and when should we teach God?

Yet you refer to "the god character" as if God is something to be studied. This belief of yours always threw me for a loop...that we were expected to correct God and such. Arachnophilia said something though that made me see the origins of your belief...again.

arachnophilia,talking to Dawn Bertot writes:

remember, you have to understand that in judaism, the law is above god; it is a contract that binds both parties to their individual terms.

Thats why I asked you earlier though tongue-in-cheek whether or not you had a Jewish Mother!

I believe that GOD,if GOD exists can be known. There is no surefire way to test this so as to be easily explainable to others, but it is my firm belief that when I pray, I am talking to God. Whether or not He listens cannot be verified, though the action certainly brings peace of mind to me.

When you pray do you ask for things to be given to you are do you ask how you can do for others?
I do both--honestly--though your beliefs have helped me to see that God is more than simply a genie. My challenge is to get you to see that God is knowable and not just some character in a book to be discussed via logic, reason, and reality. My point is that human intelligence is limited---my belief is that Gods intelligence is not limited.

Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by jar, posted 01-07-2014 2:18 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 01-08-2014 10:09 AM Phat has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 266 of 670 (715676)
01-08-2014 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Phat
01-08-2014 9:22 AM


Re: Is It A Cop Out To Believe In Communion?
Well...for starters...
quote:
John 4:24
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

That says nothing about communion.

That passage does, perhaps, condemn the kind of view sometimes expressed in debates here, that expressing certain beliefs is sufficient.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Phat, posted 01-08-2014 9:22 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 267 of 670 (715680)
01-08-2014 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
01-08-2014 9:34 AM


Re: Is It A Cop Out To Believe In Communion?
Notice that your first two paragraphs have absolutely nothing to do with each other or anything I have said.

The Old Testament is part of the Bible. Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. Jesus saw the world through Jewish eyes.

My challenge is to get you to see that God is knowable and not just some character in a book to be discussed via logic, reason, and reality. My point is that human intelligence is limited---my belief is that Gods intelligence is not limited.

See, that is just nonsense and word salad. Even if Gods intelligence is not limited, yours as a human is and so that is all you have to work with. You can only process what you can process.

Edited by jar, : add 'w'


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 01-08-2014 9:34 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Phat, posted 01-09-2014 4:13 AM jar has responded
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 01-12-2014 1:44 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12177
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 268 of 670 (715776)
01-09-2014 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by jar
01-08-2014 10:09 AM


Re: Is It A Cop Out To Believe In Communion?
How could God help us beyond what we do to help each other? Nevermind why should He care......assume for a moment that She does......
This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 01-08-2014 10:09 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by jar, posted 01-09-2014 8:17 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 269 of 670 (715780)
01-09-2014 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Phat
01-09-2014 4:13 AM


how does a good parent help?
How could God help us beyond what we do to help each other?

The same way a good parent helps us by teaching us how to do stuff, by giving us chores to do, by giving increasing responsibilities, by holding us accountable for our behavior ...


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Phat, posted 01-09-2014 4:13 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 01-09-2014 9:37 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12177
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 270 of 670 (715789)
01-09-2014 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by jar
01-09-2014 8:17 AM


Re: how does a good parent help?
good parents DO extend a helping hand now and then. I had an unexpected dental bill recently and my 90 year old parent helped me pay it. She wont help me all the time that way, but my hope is that God stands by to help should we really need it.

One mans blessing is another mans enabler. It may sound cheap to believe in get-out-of-hell-free cards, but Im quite sure that God has helped turn me around when I was headed for a cliff.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by jar, posted 01-09-2014 8:17 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by jar, posted 01-09-2014 9:50 AM Phat has responded
 Message 273 by ringo, posted 01-10-2014 11:34 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 271 of 670 (715790)
01-09-2014 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Phat
01-09-2014 9:37 AM


Re: how does a good parent help?
Has she had to bail you out before?

Have you stopped gambling?

Have you lost more than the dental bill cost by gambling?

Did she really help you?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 01-09-2014 9:37 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 01-09-2014 5:11 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
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