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Author Topic:   The Simplest Protein of Life
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 2164 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 91 of 281 (675825)
10-16-2012 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Taq
10-16-2012 11:06 AM


Re: Probabilities nonsense on both sides
What is a viable enzyme, Taq? Viable means able to survive. Survive implies being alive. From what I understand about the living I conclude that an enzyme by itself is no more alive than a hammer. Just one tiny element in a network of death escaping machines. My point was that life is not known to exist other than in such a network. Which is the most simplest network that is viable is another question.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Taq, posted 10-16-2012 11:06 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Taq, posted 10-16-2012 12:06 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3984
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 92 of 281 (675827)
10-16-2012 12:05 PM


Does Alfred M remind any other old timer of Brad?

I can't make head or tail of either's posts.

Edited by Larni, : No reason given.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-16-2012 2:32 PM Larni has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7971
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 93 of 281 (675828)
10-16-2012 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-16-2012 11:59 AM


Re: Probabilities nonsense on both sides
What is a viable enzyme, Taq?

One that catalyzes a reaction.

From what I understand about the living I conclude that an enzyme by itself is no more alive than a hammer.

However, enzymes are crucial to life and would have been important in the process of abiogenesis which is the topic of the thread.

Just one tiny element in a network of death escaping machines.

From what I can tell, organisms die all of the time.

My point was that life is not known to exist other than in such a network.

I don't disagree. However, tornados in a junkyard is a very poor model/analogy for how chemistry works. That is my point. Showing how random arrangements of nucleotides can produce functioning enzymes is a step towards understand how those networks develop.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 11:59 AM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 2164 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 94 of 281 (675833)
10-16-2012 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Percy
10-16-2012 9:52 AM


Re: Your case is lost...
So, Percy, could you specify for the cat your beliefs as to how exactly the first proteins came about and what they were? What kind of a death escaping machine were they the building blocks of? What kind of a system that death escaping machine was a part of? Or was the machine alone or in company of just a few of the same kind?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Percy, posted 10-16-2012 9:52 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Percy, posted 10-16-2012 2:26 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 95 of 281 (675851)
10-16-2012 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-16-2012 12:39 PM


Re: Your case is lost...
Alfred Maddenstein writes:

So, Percy, could you specify for the cat your beliefs as to how exactly the first proteins came about and what they were?

While there are some conjectures and hypotheses, we don't really know.

But one thing we're fairly sure of is that the molecules of life, including proteins, did not form by way of all the necessary atoms and molecules just happening to come together all at once in the right order by chance.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 12:39 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Blue Jay, posted 10-16-2012 11:45 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 107 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-17-2012 2:32 AM Percy has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 96 of 281 (675853)
10-16-2012 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Larni
10-16-2012 12:05 PM


Does Alfred M remind any other old timer of Brad?

Sort of, but not really.

Brad seemed to want to get his point across but simply was unable to do it. Alf seems to want to obfuscate his point in his attempts to discredit knowledge.

Both result in not making any sense, but Brad lacked the malicious intent that Alf gives off.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Larni, posted 10-16-2012 12:05 PM Larni has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 4:12 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 2164 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 97 of 281 (675862)
10-16-2012 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by New Cat's Eye
10-16-2012 2:32 PM


brains washed thin
What exactly in the cat's explanation keeps the pair of you so deep in the dark? Where is the obfuscation exactly? Now, mind you, the very same stuff is expressed by other people using all kinds of functions, manifolds, hyperspheres, Petrosian radii, wavelengths, arcseconds and radians and suchlike exotic stuff you might have difficulties with.
The feline keeps it all down to the very essence a nine year old whose brain is not washed thin by the lifelong exposure to the bigbangism should be able to grasp.
Just simple triangles and most basic assumptions: light speed is constant throughout with no fancy exceptions whatsoever. Due to that space and time are two interchangeable measures of distance. Direction is relative. A meter of time is the interval it takes light to cover that distance in that direction. A second of space is the distance light crosses in a standard second. So anyone standing five meters to your left strictly speaking is five meters into the relative past, any one standing five meters to the right is in the past too but that is not exactly the same past since time is a strictly local measurement relative to an arbitrary location. Light departs into the future only and arrives only from the past. The three of you do not occupy the same location so are not simultaneous. Not in the same past from one another's perspective. That is just five common-or-garden meters so the effect is infinitesimal. Not zero though, as the radiation signal is not instantaneous. Now when talking about the wide cosmos the same negligible delay becomes mind-bogglingly huge. In every direction and not just one single way for the whole of existence like the idiotic metric of Friedmann would love you believe.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-16-2012 2:32 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-16-2012 4:31 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded
 Message 99 by Taq, posted 10-16-2012 4:32 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded
 Message 100 by Larni, posted 10-16-2012 4:36 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded
 Message 101 by Panda, posted 10-16-2012 5:18 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 281 (675863)
10-16-2012 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-16-2012 4:12 PM


Re: brains washed thin
Wut?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 4:12 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7971
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 99 of 281 (675864)
10-16-2012 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-16-2012 4:12 PM


Re: brains washed thin
What exactly in the cat's explanation keeps the pair of you so deep in the dark?

What exactly in the cat's explanation is pertinent to the discussion at hand?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 4:12 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3984
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 100 of 281 (675865)
10-16-2012 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-16-2012 4:12 PM


Re: brains washed thin
Can't you please just talk like a normal person? Please.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 4:12 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded

    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1910 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 101 of 281 (675868)
10-16-2012 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-16-2012 4:12 PM


Re: brains washed thin
What always makes me laugh, is when people (like you) have no comprehension of how their posts look.
They appear incapable of understanding just how bat-shit crazy their posts sound.
Instead, they cry "What is wrong with my posts??", completely oblivious to the obvious.

I expect that you think it is normal (and not even slightly deranged) to refer to yourself in the third person and as a cat.
I suspect that before you retired, you mainly worked on your own...


"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 4:12 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 5:45 PM Panda has responded

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 2164 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 102 of 281 (675872)
10-16-2012 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Panda
10-16-2012 5:18 PM


Re: brains washed thin
Aren't you a naive panda's thumb? The cat is just charitable on you mice. He gives you lot a lot of cover to concentrate on so that you can ignore the book and its deadly claws with perfect ease you desire.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Panda, posted 10-16-2012 5:18 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Panda, posted 10-16-2012 6:35 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded
 Message 104 by jar, posted 10-16-2012 6:58 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 1910 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 103 of 281 (675873)
10-16-2012 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-16-2012 5:45 PM


Re: brains washed thin
AM writes:

Aren't you a naive panda's thumb? The cat is just charitable on you mice. He gives you lot a lot of cover to concentrate on so that you can ignore the book and its deadly claws with perfect ease you desire.


As expected.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 5:45 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31076
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 104 of 281 (675874)
10-16-2012 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-16-2012 5:45 PM


Re: brains washed thin
Okay, probably a mistake but gotta ask.

What book?

What deadly claws?

What does the book have to do with the topic?

What do claws have to do with the topic?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-16-2012 5:45 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 2164 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 105 of 281 (675875)
10-16-2012 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Larni
10-15-2012 1:22 PM


Re: Your case is lost...
Larn, you can't produce a virus whereas the latest research inclines the cat to believe that the virus was being instrumental in producing you from a different type of ape. Hence the viral memory and intelligence must be ultimately superior to yours.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Larni, posted 10-15-2012 1:22 PM Larni has not yet responded

  
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