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Author Topic:   Yet another Congressman who doesn't accept the theory of evolution
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 231 (676273)
10-21-2012 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by ICANT
10-21-2012 2:21 AM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
The Bible gives evidence that the earth and heavens are much older than 9,000 years.
That's great. I am not describing a dispute between the Bible and science. My comments are about a Congressman who is an idiot.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Well, you may still have time to register to vote. Even North Carolinians can still register for early voting. State Registration Deadlines

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2012 2:21 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2012 12:33 PM NoNukes has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 77 of 231 (676282)
10-21-2012 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Percy
10-21-2012 7:47 AM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
You've just referred to your two questions as both facts and hypotheses. I sense some confusion.
I am not confused.
I believe the universe and everything in it has existed for eternity past and will exist in eternity future. Neither in the form we see it today.
I believe life has always existed. It takes life to produce life.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Percy, posted 10-21-2012 7:47 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 78 of 231 (676284)
10-21-2012 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by NoNukes
10-21-2012 11:08 AM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
That's great. I am not describing a dispute between the Bible and science. My comments are about a Congressman who is an idiot.
I would not classify the Congressman as an idiot for his beliefs, no more than I would classify you as an idiot for your beliefs.
Since I disagree with the Congressman I would say he has believed what he has been taught, and is very sincere in what he believes. He is just sincerely wrong. He has believed the lie that he has been taught which makes him a fool.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by NoNukes, posted 10-21-2012 11:08 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-21-2012 2:03 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 81 by NoNukes, posted 10-21-2012 8:54 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 79 of 231 (676294)
10-21-2012 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by ICANT
10-21-2012 12:33 PM


The distinction between a fool and an idiot is a subtle one.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2012 12:33 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2012 2:55 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 80 of 231 (676297)
10-21-2012 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Dr Adequate
10-21-2012 2:03 PM


Hi Dr,
Dr Adequate writes:
The distinction between a fool and an idiot is a subtle one.
IDIOT 1. usually offensive: a person affected with extreme mental retardation
An idiot has diminished mental capacity.
Which means he/she would not have a PHD.
FOOL 1. a person lacking in judgment or prudence.
A fool can be a person that has a PHD and several other degrees.
I think that is a little more than a subtle distinction.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-21-2012 2:03 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 231 (676333)
10-21-2012 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by ICANT
10-21-2012 12:33 PM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
He has believed the lie that he has been taught which makes him a fool.
Fair enough. Perhaps the word idiot is not the proper characterization.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Well, you may still have time to register to vote. Even North Carolinians can still register for early voting. State Registration Deadlines

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2012 12:33 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by jar, posted 10-21-2012 9:08 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 82 of 231 (676334)
10-21-2012 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by NoNukes
10-21-2012 8:54 PM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
Perhaps the word idiot is not the proper characterization.
I agree. They would have an excuse. Congressman Broun is simply a threat to the US and all US citizens and residents.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by NoNukes, posted 10-21-2012 8:54 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(2)
Message 83 of 231 (676419)
10-22-2012 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by foreveryoung
10-20-2012 12:59 AM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
I put educated in quotes if you did not notice. I don't consider you people educated in the real sense of the word. When I say the "educated" man, I mean the propagandized, group thinked, and brainwashed man.
If that doesn't sound like Stalin then nothing does. Should we be sent to the gulags for re-education?
The fact of the matter is that many of us are trained in the sciences. That means, we understand what the scientific consensus is and the facts that led to that consensus. If you want to budge us off of that consensus then you need to bring evidence, not vitriol and a persecution complex. Capiche?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by foreveryoung, posted 10-20-2012 12:59 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 84 of 231 (676587)
10-24-2012 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Percy
10-20-2012 11:19 AM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
percy writes:
It's not so much that we all think the same way but more that we all accept the same facts, and our opinions are constrained by those facts. Those who reject facts do tend to have a wider variety of opinion.
Facts must be proven in order to be facts. You all don't accept the same facts; you accept the same consensus of your fellow travelers in science and politics and culture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Percy, posted 10-20-2012 11:19 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by subbie, posted 10-24-2012 12:31 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 87 by Percy, posted 10-24-2012 9:14 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 88 by Theodoric, posted 10-24-2012 10:05 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 85 of 231 (676588)
10-24-2012 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by foreveryoung
10-24-2012 12:20 AM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
Facts must be proven in order to be facts. You all don't accept the same facts; you accept the same consensus of your fellow travelers in science and politics and culture.
And, we have objective evidence to back up our facts. Where there is insufficient objective evidence, we do not claim facts.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by foreveryoung, posted 10-24-2012 12:20 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 86 of 231 (676594)
10-24-2012 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Dr Adequate
10-20-2012 12:45 PM


Re: My Monkey Is Wearing A Hat
I was talking about the idea, not the words. The language doesn't make a difference: the idea "My monkey is wearing a hat" is the same idea as "Ma singe porte un chapeau".
This is going significantly off topic, but given that the topic is simply 'dear God, this man's a Congressman!' I hope I'll be forgiven.
I don't think you can claim that the idea is necessarily the same once you've changed the words. Words are unique from one another, and often carry different subtle shades of meaning, which can change across time and space. A translation is the best attempt the translator can manage to render ideas in a different language, but for the words to carry the exact same ideas is rare except in the most trivial of cases.
Even the example that you've chosen, a very simple sentence about concrete things, in two related modern languages we can understand well, serves a good example of the point. I imagine the idea you were trying to put across was not this one:
You're an educated guy who posts in a forum about biological evolution, and so you're probably quite aware that a chimpanzee is not a monkey. You're thinking something more like this:
However, when you translate it into French, you change the idea slightly. Only one of the above is a monkey with a hat, but they are both les singes avec les chapeaus, because the French word 'le signe' applies equally to monkeys and non-human apes.
In the example ICANT was talking about, we're discussing more complicated, theological topics, and we're translating from an unrelated language as it was written thousands of years ago. It's presumptuous in the extreme to think that the translation you have has captured the same idea as that held by thos who first wrote it.
Edited by caffeine, : Messed up the chimp in a hat picture
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Problems with second photo loading.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Undo the previous edit. Wordpress.com seems to have had a temporary problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-20-2012 12:45 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 87 of 231 (676606)
10-24-2012 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by foreveryoung
10-24-2012 12:20 AM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
Hi ForEverYoung,
I'm afraid we all do pretty much accept the same facts (excluding the scientific frontiers, of course). This is because we accept the scientific method as the best way of establishing facts, so that when we see evidence that has been gathered and replicated and interpreted using the scientific method we all tend to accept it as fact.
You are seeking cultural and social reasons for the consensus, but those who accept evolution come from all cultures, religions and countries. It is scientifically established facts are the significant common denominator.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by foreveryoung, posted 10-24-2012 12:20 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 88 of 231 (676609)
10-24-2012 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by foreveryoung
10-24-2012 12:20 AM


Re: Mainstream Media? Really?
You all don't accept the same facts
Maybe you need to give your definition of the word "fact". Cuz, you are obviously using a different definition for the word than the rest of us, and the rest of the world.
I think Inigo Montoya said it best.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by foreveryoung, posted 10-24-2012 12:20 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 89 of 231 (676937)
10-25-2012 9:13 PM


A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
― Edward R. Murrow
This was stated by a liberal with a mindset of which you all are cookie cutter images of. It was stated when the nation generally believed in conservative values. We are still a nation of sheep, but this time there is no liberal spokesman or writer to warn us of a government of wolves because liberals have their form of government in place and therefore it cannot be possibly run by wolves.

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Theodoric, posted 10-25-2012 10:01 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 94 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-26-2012 1:37 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(3)
Message 90 of 231 (676938)
10-25-2012 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by foreveryoung
10-25-2012 9:13 PM


Please show evidence Murrow said that
Not surprisingly I do not think you will ever be able to provide an original attribution of this quote to Murrow. If you do you will be the first i can find. I have been questioning people on this since teabaggers have been popularizing it. I have been searching but have not been able to find any evidence to show it is a Murrow quote. But then again we know that that doesnt matter to you.
In actuality it was probably said by French philosopher, political economist, and futurist Bertand Jouvenal. Jouvenal was no liberal.
There is this.
quote:
To have an idea of the curse of existence under (governments of force), they must be seen. It is a government of wolves over sheep.
Letter to James Madison, 1787
This was stated by a liberal with a mindset of which you all are cookie cutter images of. It was stated when the nation generally believed in conservative values. We are still a nation of sheep, but this time there is no liberal spokesman or writer to warn us of a government of wolves because liberals have their form of government in place and therefore it cannot be possibly run by wolves.
Do you know anything about Edward R, Murrow? Or are you parroting again.
Finally what does this have to do with anything we are discussing or is this just more shit you are going to fling against the wall? What the hell does it even mean?
ABE
No one can give Wikiquote a source either.
Edited by Theodoric, : more

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by foreveryoung, posted 10-25-2012 9:13 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by foreveryoung, posted 10-25-2012 11:25 PM Theodoric has replied

  
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