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Author Topic:   Yet another Congressman who doesn't accept the theory of evolution
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 136 of 231 (677119)
10-26-2012 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by NoNukes
10-26-2012 8:59 PM


Re: Mocking Sketch boy
Ah, yes, I had managed to forget the pleasures of Santorum.
Thanks ever so much.
Edited by Omnivorous, : finish the Cheshire Cat wink

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by NoNukes, posted 10-26-2012 8:59 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(3)
Message 137 of 231 (677122)
10-26-2012 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 12:07 PM


Your ignorance is showing
I am not joking. You really need to take some classes in economics. You have absolutely no understanding of economics so you probably should quit posting about it. You also have no idea how our government works.
I really want to see how Obama is responsible for the price of gas. Since he was responsible for it going up does he get any credit for the recent drop?
Through his forced obamacare on all small businesses, it is very difficult to find a good paying job and to buy affordable health insurance.
Please list the parts that have been enacted and show how they have effected employment or availability health insurance.
When the federal reserve does those "quantitative easings", they put all those extra dollars into circulation with nothing in value to back them up. That is what causes the cost of food to go up.
IT BURNS
Really just a basic class in economics. Thats all. It will help a lot.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 12:07 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(3)
Message 138 of 231 (677123)
10-26-2012 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 3:27 PM


If that isn't fascism, I don't know what is.
Well you certainly don't know what fascism is. Political science is another thing you constantly show your ignorance about.
You might want to try a political science class or two. Last week we were all stalinists, now we a fascists.
Next week are we going to be anarcho-syndicalists?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 3:27 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 139 of 231 (677124)
10-26-2012 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by NoNukes
10-26-2012 4:00 PM


I don't post in order to get pos rep. That is the reason I get neg rep so often. It wasn't until I agreed on the age of the earth with you guys that I get positive rep. I didn't change my position on that in order to get the pos rep though; I am just merely noting the hypocrisy going on here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by NoNukes, posted 10-26-2012 4:00 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Theodoric, posted 10-26-2012 10:10 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 141 by NoNukes, posted 10-26-2012 10:37 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 145 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-27-2012 7:17 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 140 of 231 (677125)
10-26-2012 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 10:05 PM


I am just merely noting the hypocrisy going on here.
But you have not shown any hypocrisy at all. Your earlier creo arguments were lame as all your political arguments are. The reason you got pos now was because people were impressed that you were able to look at objective facts scientifically and come to a reasonable conclusion from those facts. There is no hypocrisy.
Your persecution complex is showing.
ABE
Thanks for the jeers. I guess that is kind of hypocritical of you.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 10:05 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 141 of 231 (677126)
10-26-2012 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 10:05 PM


What hypocrisy?
I am just merely noting the hypocrisy going on here.
I note that you only disagreed with one of my three reasons for calling you a sheep.
I'll attempt to make my point in a less confrontational way. You are doubtless aware of the polarization of opinion evident this election cycle. The country is nearly evenly divided over who ought to be president, and a host of other issues. It might even turn out that a majority of the voting public favors Romney.
It does happen that you are posting in a situation where most of the vocal and active posters disagree with you. But how does that make them sheep and you not a sheep? You could easily go post your views on another blog and get total agreement with those views. Would that make you more or less of a sheep?
Hypocrisy implies some inconsistency between behaviors at different times. What hypocrisy are you referring to here?
I actually thought you made some good points regarding judging people based on their religious beliefs, and I did reconsider my initial stance expressed in my OP. I don't think any better of Broun and his politics though.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 10:05 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 142 of 231 (677131)
10-27-2012 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 3:27 PM


It took me agreeing with you people on the age of the earth and the universe to get any positive reps, otherwise I get bombarded with negative rep when I don't follow the party line. If that isn't fascism, I don't know what is.
Ah yes, fascism. That's when people agree with things that they agree with, and disagree with things that they disagree with, isn't it? Oh, and I seem to remember some sort of trivial detail about gas chambers, but that's essentially what fascism is, am I right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 3:27 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 143 of 231 (677132)
10-27-2012 4:59 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 12:07 PM


My overall EFFECTIVE tax has greatly risen.
So, not your actual tax rate, then?
Through his actions on the petroleum industry, I am paying close to 4 bucks a gallon for gas.
Golly, and there was I thinking that gas prices were set by the free market.
Through his forced obamacare on all small businesses, it is very difficult to find a good paying job and to buy affordable health insurance.
Well, the combination of Obamacare and the magical Obama time machine.
The biggest tax on me so far is the rising cost of food. When the federal reserve does those "quantitative easings", they put all those extra dollars into circulation with nothing in value to back them up. That is what causes the cost of food to go up.
The inflation rate is actually rather low by historical standards. In fact, some of the time Obama's been president, it's been negative.
The biggest impact that obama's policies will have on me is limiting my career choices when I graduate. I will no longer have the option of becoming a petroleum engineer or working with coal companies to find new sources of coal.
Because he'll use his time machine to travel to the future as well?
He is currently President, and guess what, people are still looking for coal and oil. How do you propose he's going to stop people from doing that after he's stopped being President?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 12:07 PM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by NoNukes, posted 10-27-2012 10:19 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 144 of 231 (677136)
10-27-2012 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 12:07 PM


My overall EFFECTIVE tax has greatly risen.
I remember President Ronald Reagan's big and much bally-hoo'ed tax break. Big tax reductions! For the rich! My own income tax that year? It doubled! And I wasn't the only one to notice that. The rich got a huge tax break, while us middle-class people got the shaft. I have lived through what Republicans do to us! How anybody who is not rich could ever support the Republicans completely escapes me. I am the youngest of three, with my oldest sister being 8 years older than I. Her husband, a life-long Republican is now retired and has been for at least half a decade. One night over dinner, he announced that he had come to a conclusion: The Republicans are not his friends!
Are you rich? No? Then please wake up!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 12:07 PM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Percy, posted 10-27-2012 5:16 PM dwise1 has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 145 of 231 (677138)
10-27-2012 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 10:05 PM


I don't post in order to get pos rep. That is the reason I get neg rep so often. It wasn't until I agreed on the age of the earth with you guys that I get positive rep. I didn't change my position on that in order to get the pos rep though; I am just merely noting the hypocrisy going on here.
Ah yes, hypocrisy. That's when people agree with things that they agree with, and disagree with things that they disagree with, isn't it? Well, apparently it is now. A more conventional definition of hypocrisy would be that it's when people conceal their opinions, rather than expressing them. But I'm sure you know best.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 10:05 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(8)
Message 146 of 231 (677153)
10-27-2012 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 12:07 PM


Hi ForEverYoung,
This message has already received a lot of responses, but I thought I'd reply anyway because I'm somewhat sympathetic to some of the things you say.
foreveryoung writes:
My overall EFFECTIVE tax has greatly risen. Through his actions on the petroleum industry, I am paying close to 4 bucks a gallon for gas.
On this particular point I agree with most others in that I don't think Obama has much influence on gas prices. This table of domestic oil production is from Politifact.com:
Fiscal year Offshore (million barrels) Onshore Total Percent change from prior year
2003 579 101 680 n/a
2004 572 97 669 -1.6%
2005 542 96 638 -4.6%
2006 471 101 572 -10.3%
2007 514 105 619 +8.2
2008 462 104 566 -8.6%
2009 527 105 632 +11.7%
2010 618 108 726 +14.9%
2011 514 112 626 - 13.8%
                                                                            Source: EIA; some numbers slightly off due to independent rounding in source data
Notice that the figures went up and down during the Bush administration, but up every year during the Obama administration except 2011, which are down because of the Deepwater Horizon accident and the subsequent moratorium on many offshore oil-drilling activities. The figures for 2012 are likely to be down, too, for the same reason, and because there were subsequent changes in regulation.
But I don't think you can give Obama much if any credit for the increases in oil production. There were no significant changes in regulation until recently, and it's primarily a commercial activity.
Regarding taxes on gas, Obama has been in favor of keeping them at current levels. There has been pressure to reduce the tax, but its revenues are being used to fund transportation projects which provide jobs.
The biggest impact that obama's policies will have on me is limiting my career choices when I graduate. I will no longer have the option of becoming a petroleum engineer or working with coal companies to find new sources of coal.
Given the increases in domestic oil production that are projected to increase right into the 2020's, there seems no rational basis for this fear. In fact, America is poised to become a net oil exporter. Strange given all our worry about oil sustainability, America suddenly finds itself on the threshold of energy independence, primary because of fracking technology. One side effect of fracking is the increased production of natural gas which is gradually displacing both oil and coal in electricity production and the powering of large car and bus fleets.
I don't think you have to worry about getting a job in the petroleum industry.
Through his forced obamacare on all small businesses, it is very difficult to find a good paying job and to buy affordable health insurance.
Forbes had a good article about this (Will The Health Care Law Help Or Hurt Small Businesses?).
The new health care law is staged. Some of law is already in place, and the rest of it comes on line in 2014. To keep this simple I'll focus on what the law will require in 2014.
First, you're wrong to say Obamacare will be forced upon all small businesses. Companies with fewer than 50 employees will not have to provide healthcare, though incentives are provided for those that do. 96% of small businesses have fewer than 50 employees, so the impact on small businesses should be nearly negligible.
But you go on to raise a very good and important point:
All the new regulations on the insurance industry has only served to raise their rates and lower their services. I realize they are now offering new services like allowing your adult children to be on your plan and covering existing conditions, but those come at the cost of higher premiums and reduced coverage elsewhere.
This does make sense. It should cost insurance companies more when they have to provide more coverage, so to fund that additional coverage they must resort to some combination of increased rates, lowered services, cost reductions, increased efficiency and reduced profits. The question is, what has actually happened in the insurance industry with the introduction of Obamacare? Have costs risen and services declined? It's probably too soon to tell.
But what Obabacare is actually trying to achieve is a more even distribution of health benefits, an important goal to those who like me believe that one's health shouldn't be a function of one's wealth. Health problems that can strike anyone, including those who take their health seriously but who become seriously ill through no fault of their own, should not cause bankruptcy or ruin.
Our approach to providing health insurance to the majority of the population is rather odd because it is done primarily through employers. Little of the rest of the world follows our lead in this. Though on the one hand America provides the best health care in the world, on the other hand it also provides the most expensive, and analysis indicates that the benefits don't justify the additional costs. Keeping costs down while providing affordable healthcare to an increasing proportion of the population will be difficult and take a long time. There will be debates about health care for the foreseeable future.
The biggest tax on me so far is the rising cost of food. When the federal reserve does those "quantitative easings", they put all those extra dollars into circulation with nothing in value to back them up. That is what causes the cost of food to go up.
It does seem like food prices have risen dramatically over the past year or two, but blaming the Federal Reserve seems beyond odd, plus Obama has no control over it. By explicit intent the Federal Reserve is independent. And if the dollars they're putting into circulation to stimulate the economy were inflationary then it would affect far more than just food. Since inflation remains very low the Federal Reserve has got to be one of the most unlikely candidates for blame for high food prices.
So how much have food prices risen over the past few years. These figures are weekly food costs for a family of 4 with 2 children for the month of September taken from the USDA's cost of food webpage:
YearWeekly CostPercentage Change
2001105.20--
2002107.101.81%
2003110.102.80%
2004114.003.54%
2005117.803.33%
2006121.903.48%
2007126.703.94%
2008139.8010.34%
2009133.00-4.86%
2010134.100.83%
2011144.107.46%
2012144.400.21%
Different regions of the country will of course vary, but what we see is that there was a big increase in the last year of the Bush administration, and there was a big increase in 2011, but other than that food cost increases have been rather moderate. Over the 4 years of the Obama administration the average annual increase in food prices has been .91%. This may seem like an incredibly low rate, but of course it includes the 2009 year where prices declined due to the impact of the financial crisis.
So it looks like the only valid reason one could have for voting against Obama among those you listed is if you're against government attempts to provide health care for everyone. I can't see any specific reason to vote against Romney, unless one finds his lack of specificity and his duplicitous chameleon like nature to be a reason. I live the next state over from the very liberal state of Massachusetts, and I work in the state, so I got to watch him up close while he was governor. It is actually true that Romney tried to introduce universal health care to Massachusetts. I thought he was a pretty good governor. But what's he's had to do in order to obtain the nomination of a very conservative Republican party has revealed that he desires the office much more than he values his integrity.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 12:07 PM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Omnivorous, posted 10-27-2012 5:34 PM Percy has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 147 of 231 (677154)
10-27-2012 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Dr Adequate
10-27-2012 4:59 AM


He is currently President, and guess what, people are still looking for coal and oil. How do you propose he's going to stop people from doing that after he's stopped being President?
Just looking at the coal part of the equation, blaming the administration is ridiculous. Coal is on the decline because fracking produces fuel much more cheaply and is available everywhere. And if politics elsewhere is anything like it is in North Carolina, it is the Republicans that are shoving fracking fracking down our throats over the objections of Democrats who seem concerned about poisoning the ground water, earthquake risks, and global climate change.
Bottom line though is that coal is dying off because it can't compete with the riders in the other heats (my apologies to Mr. Jagger). On top of that, burning coa

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-27-2012 4:59 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(3)
Message 148 of 231 (677156)
10-27-2012 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 12:07 PM


No option to be a petroleum engineer? Really? Come out to West Texas, where Motel 6 rooms are about $200 per night, if you can get one. Or go to North Dakota or South Texas, where it's just as crazy.
Which administration granted the permits for the drilling that (re)starts next spring in the Chukchi Sea?
But becoming an environmental engineer is a pretty solid choice - this petroleum business has always been like a roller coaster. And that roller coaster isn't driven by who is in the White House - since 1973 it's been driven primarily by the House of Saud.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 12:07 PM foreveryoung has replied

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foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 149 of 231 (677162)
10-27-2012 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Coragyps
10-27-2012 10:59 AM


Why are you calling Petroleum Geologists and Environmental Geologists Engineers?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by anglagard, posted 10-27-2012 5:43 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 150 of 231 (677163)
10-27-2012 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by foreveryoung
10-26-2012 12:07 PM


My overall EFFECTIVE tax has greatly risen.
But we all know, even you, that this is a lie. Unless of course your actual income has risen greatly. You are great with spouting shit, but as now you never back anything with what is called facts.
Please explain how your effective tax rate has greatly risen. Well why don't you start with a definition of effective tax rate first so we do not have any equivocation.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by foreveryoung, posted 10-26-2012 12:07 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
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