Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8896 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-22-2019 10:18 AM
45 online now:
AZPaul3, Diomedes, JonF, Meddle, PaulK (5 members, 40 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 848,542 Year: 3,579/19,786 Month: 574/1,087 Week: 164/212 Day: 6/25 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1234
5
67Next
Author Topic:   Foreveryoung Discussions
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5954
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 61 of 103 (677633)
10-31-2012 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by nwr
10-31-2012 10:53 AM


Re: Who cares
I'm not giving onifre a cheer, because of the tone of his post.

In this situation this seems to be the tone that is necessary. I think the tone is spot on. It is not incumbent upon us to be polite to someone that is incapable and refuses to be polite himself.

Tough love, baby.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by nwr, posted 10-31-2012 10:53 AM nwr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 10-31-2012 11:22 AM Theodoric has responded
 Message 63 by Rahvin, posted 10-31-2012 11:39 AM Theodoric has responded
 Message 66 by nwr, posted 10-31-2012 12:57 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18309
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


(3)
Message 62 of 103 (677636)
10-31-2012 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Theodoric
10-31-2012 11:10 AM


Re: Who cares
Theodoric writes:

It is not incumbent upon us to be polite to someone that is incapable and refuses to be polite himself.

But it sure makes it easier to tell the good guys from the bad guys.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Theodoric, posted 10-31-2012 11:10 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Theodoric, posted 10-31-2012 12:42 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1263 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


(4)
Message 63 of 103 (677640)
10-31-2012 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Theodoric
10-31-2012 11:10 AM


Re: Who cares
Tough love, baby.

"Tough love" largely does not work. If you want to encourage a certain type of behavior, you react positively when that behavior is demonstrated.

If FEY gets a "fuck off, you rude asshole" even when he makes a POTM-worthy post, what's his incentive to be polite?


“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.”
- Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Theodoric, posted 10-31-2012 11:10 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Theodoric, posted 10-31-2012 12:36 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5954
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 64 of 103 (677651)
10-31-2012 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Rahvin
10-31-2012 11:39 AM


Re: Who cares
One half way decent post after hundreds of crap and he gets a POTM? Have our standards sunk so low? Or are expectations so low of fundies that when they post one rational post they get a POTM?

People have been trying to be nice to him for months. He has been given lots of rope and hung himself numerous times. At times tough love is appropriate and does work. It is an integral part(not the telling to fuck off of course) of Love and Logic, which is a well respected parenting program. How does anyone learn if you just coddle?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Rahvin, posted 10-31-2012 11:39 AM Rahvin has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5954
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 65 of 103 (677653)
10-31-2012 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Percy
10-31-2012 11:22 AM


Re: Who cares
I think I have been very restrained in my responses to this guy. Anytime he is pressed on his crap he lashes out. He is the one that persists in being a dick. Any benefit of the doubt was lost a long time ago. I applaud Oni in saying it as it is.

If Forever wants to have respectful debate there are a lot of us here that would be more than willing to join in. Hell that is why we come here.

If he doesnt want respectful debate he should find someplace else. One decent post does not excuse all the crap before.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 10-31-2012 11:22 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


(11)
Message 66 of 103 (677659)
10-31-2012 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Theodoric
10-31-2012 11:10 AM


Re: Who cares
It is not incumbent upon us to be polite to someone that is incapable and refuses to be polite himself.

I am reminded of the old story of a man who raised his hat to a passing woman (back in the day, it was polite for a gentleman to raise his hat for a lady).

  • "Why did you raise your hat? She is no lady."
  • "I raised my hat because I am a gentleman."

The tone that we set in our messages is about us. It is not about them (whoever the "them" happens to be).


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Theodoric, posted 10-31-2012 11:10 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 67 of 103 (677707)
11-01-2012 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by foreveryoung
10-29-2012 11:54 PM


They haven't been exposed to cogent, coherent arguments to the contrary.

This is very true. But we have looked for them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by foreveryoung, posted 10-29-2012 11:54 PM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by foreveryoung, posted 11-01-2012 3:18 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 159 days)
Posts: 901
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 68 of 103 (677711)
11-01-2012 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Dr Adequate
11-01-2012 2:42 AM


Have you REALLY tried to find them in sources outside of this forum?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-01-2012 2:42 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Granny Magda, posted 11-01-2012 3:40 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded
 Message 70 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-01-2012 5:36 AM foreveryoung has responded
 Message 74 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-01-2012 10:16 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded
 Message 75 by dwise1, posted 11-01-2012 10:47 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded
 Message 85 by Tangle, posted 11-03-2012 6:10 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


(2)
Message 69 of 103 (677713)
11-01-2012 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by foreveryoung
11-01-2012 3:18 AM


Yes. All of us have I expect. I know I have. Not found a single one.

It seems a common creationist assumption that we evo's are simply not familiar with Christianity/the Bible/creationism, but it is rarely the case.

On the other hand, I don't think I have ever encountered a single creationist on these boards who accurately understood evolution.

Make of that what you will.

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by foreveryoung, posted 11-01-2012 3:18 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


(3)
Message 70 of 103 (677718)
11-01-2012 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by foreveryoung
11-01-2012 3:18 AM


Have you REALLY tried to find them in sources outside of this forum?

Of course. You don't suppose that my interest in creationism came about only after I'd joined a forum devoted to debating it? That would be odd. I read a great deal of creationist apologetics, and came to know it for what it was. As a result, I joined these forums.

Consequently I know a lot more creationist arguments than the average creationist, and a lot better, and am always ready to help them out when they recite their little lessons wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by foreveryoung, posted 11-01-2012 3:18 AM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Theodoric, posted 11-01-2012 8:59 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 72 by foreveryoung, posted 11-01-2012 9:51 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5954
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 71 of 103 (677726)
11-01-2012 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Dr Adequate
11-01-2012 5:36 AM


Consequently I know a lot more creationist arguments than the average creationist, and a lot better, and am always ready to help them out when they recite their little lessons wrong.

I think this is true of most of us "evolutionists". I had been hearing and arguing against creationists arguments long before I found this site. This site helped me make my arguments stronger and pointed me toward both creo/fundie and scientific arguments The creo/fundie arguments are always ultimately laughable.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-01-2012 5:36 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 159 days)
Posts: 901
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 72 of 103 (677733)
11-01-2012 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Dr Adequate
11-01-2012 5:36 AM


I was actually referring to much more than creationism. There have been many more topics discussed here than that. If I remember correctly, I said that you all are dogmatic and cannot think of any other possibilities to certain issues than what you are familiar with because you only read things by people you generally agree with. I was referring to a wide range of topics on which all of you disagree with me on. I am saying cannot fathom of any other way to think about these things because you have not come across and coherent and cogent argument for them. It is my position that you have not looked hard enough.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-01-2012 5:36 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 11-01-2012 10:10 AM foreveryoung has responded
 Message 76 by NoNukes, posted 11-01-2012 10:53 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded
 Message 83 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-01-2012 1:18 PM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(5)
Message 73 of 103 (677739)
11-01-2012 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by foreveryoung
11-01-2012 9:51 AM


I am saying cannot fathom of any other way to think about these things because you have not come across and coherent and cogent argument for them. It is my position that you have not looked hard enough.

Then educate us, present that coherent and cogent argument.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by foreveryoung, posted 11-01-2012 9:51 AM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by foreveryoung, posted 11-01-2012 12:21 PM jar has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(5)
Message 74 of 103 (677743)
11-01-2012 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by foreveryoung
11-01-2012 3:18 AM


Have you REALLY tried to find them in sources outside of this forum?

Yes! Really.

I am saying cannot fathom of any other way to think about these things because you have not come across and coherent and cogent argument for them. It is my position that you have not looked hard enough.

You really underestimate us. I've looked into all kinds of crazy shit. I sit at a computer all day, man. You don't know the things I've seen

Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by foreveryoung, posted 11-01-2012 3:18 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3309
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(7)
Message 75 of 103 (677751)
11-01-2012 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by foreveryoung
11-01-2012 3:18 AM


Have you REALLY tried to find them in sources outside of this forum?

Are you kidding us? Do you really believe that we keep ourselves as isolated and ignorant as creationists do?

I first encountered "creation science" in 1970 with two claims: living molluscs radiodated to be thousands of years old and a NASA computer discovered Joshua's Lost Day. The first claim was bogus (reservoir effect -- the fresh-water clams' stream was filled with dissolved limestone, AKA "old carbon") while the second one was blatantly bogus because even when almost nobody had access to them I knew that computers are not magic (even many Christian sites also refute that claim now). During that time, I also spent a lot of time with fundamentalist friends and families of friends during which time I learned a lot about their theology.

In 1981, an ICR creationist came to speak near where I was stationed and I figured that, since they were still around, there must actually be something to it. So I started studying "creation science" to learn just what they evidence was. I quickly learned that that evidence simply does not exist. Watching a fundamentalist Christian TV show on Pat Robertson's CBN which featured a debate between a leading creationist and an "evolutionist" was an eye-opener when the creationist adamantly blinded himself to the evidence (for details, read about that debate in my Why I Oppose Creation Science (or, How I got to Here from There) where three pelvises -- ape, human, and hominid -- were compared). Half a decade later, a creationist co-worker and I attended a major debate (ICR's Gish & H. Morris vs SDSU's Thwaites and Awbrey -- Gish and Morris literally wrote the "creation science" book); as we were leaving, my friend (for whom I had written the first iteration of that essay above) was in shock and kept muttering "We have mountains of evidence that would have blown those evolutionists away. Why didn't they present any of it?" The reason: they have no evidence; they just lie to their followers that they have evidence.

Since then, I have continued to study, to collect creationist claims and to verify them, and to discuss "creation science" with creationists. That included an extended email correspondence with a local creationist activist. What kept happening over and over and over again was that no creationist would even begin to attempt to support any of their own claims and would even vehemently oppose all my attempts to get them to even discuss those claims. Invariably, they would try to change the subject.

So, does three decades count as trying to find any cogent creationist arguments? Com'on, try to get real here!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by foreveryoung, posted 11-01-2012 3:18 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Coyote, posted 11-01-2012 11:12 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Prev1234
5
67Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019