|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Summations Only | Thread ▼ Details |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The war of atheism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
..., but you can't organize a bunch of people who don't necessarily have any beliefs in common.
Yes, exactly right. I keep seeing atheist meetings being pushed on some of the blogs. And I can't imagine why I would ever want to attend one. I suppose there is slightly more content to a skeptics meeting, though I can't imagine why I would want to attend one of those either.Jesus was a liberal hippie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As for the atheist+ "movement", it may as well open up to theists who share the same politics. Which is what they should do if they ever hope to be anything other than another irrelevant fringe group.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
These people who seem to be trying to get together some kind of organized atheism are just learning what I could have told them at the start. You can have skeptics organizations, and humanist organisations, and religious organizations, and all kinds of organizations based around peoples beliefs, but you can't organize a bunch of people who don't necessarily have any beliefs in common. You didn't need to teach them this - it's written in what is as close to the 'New Atheist' manifesto as one can propose, The God Delusion, 2006 (from the preface):
quote: I think that critical mass is still building, but now that the atheist movement is large, it also has acquired a certain level of diversity of opinion. If it keeps growing, it will become almost entirely without direction. I was thinking the end game was to merge with Humanism, and maybe Atheism+ is an intermediary stepping stone in that direction.
As for the atheist+ "movement", it may as well open up to theists who share the same politics. I'm pretty sure the humanists and secularists have that particular niche more or less covered. Atheism+ is a label chosen to retain the atheistic element of the movement in the identifying label. To continue the movement to de-stigmatize the position while also identifying some positive beliefs. It probably won't catch on everywhere. It's main purpose seems to be about retaining the 'confrontation' of calling oneself an atheist, but carrying an additional identifier as to the kind of atheist one is...this tactic is best in environments where there are quite a lot of atheists, but there is still stigma surrounding calling oneself an atheist. Such as America.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2505 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Modulous writes: You didn't need to teach them this - it's written in what is as close to the 'New Atheist' manifesto as one can propose, The God Delusion, 2006 (from the preface):... Yeah, I remember that. Someone with a sense of humour gave me the book as a Christmas present a few years ago. And you can't herd cats. The overwhelming majority of atheists will not be interested in joining organised groups. If we were the type of people who have an emotional need for a religion, we'd probably already be in one. Maybe I should start a completely disorganised movement called IA. Irreligious Atheists. The only thing you have to do to join is fit the description. The rules are that you never go to IA meetings (easy to obey), never wear IA T-shirts, never attempt to contact and meet other IAs, and never attempt to herd cats.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
roxrkool Member (Idle past 1017 days) Posts: 1497 From: Nevada Joined: |
Interesting. I had no idea all this drama was unfolding in the atheist world.
From your description, I have no interest in aligning myself with the Atheist+ movement. Why? Because my atheism has absolutely nothing to do with feminism, racism, or homophobia. It's about knowing there is no supernatural. Period. I don't have to be a feminist, non-racist, homo-friendly, flaming liberal to be an atheist. They are completely separate, albeit compatible, systems of belief and/or knowledge. I'm an atheist regardless of what other beliefs I hold. This movement reminds me of when someone told me I couldn't call myself a Democrat and work in the mining industry because a 'real' Democrat would never rape the planet.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
|
This movement reminds me of when someone told me I couldn't call myself a Democrat and work in the mining industry because a 'real' Democrat would never rape the planet. Hmm ... do real Democrats use objects made out of metal?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Omnivorous Member Posts: 3990 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
bluegenes writes: Maybe I should start a completely disorganised movement called IA. Irreligious Atheists. The only thing you have to do to join is fit the description. The rules are that you never go to IA meetings (easy to obey), never wear IA T-shirts, never attempt to contact and meet other IAs, and never attempt to herd cats. Meeting-attending, T-shirt wearing, networking and cat-herding factions would arise to contest your hierarchical authority."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
roxrkool Member (Idle past 1017 days) Posts: 1497 From: Nevada Joined: |
Don't get me started...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2505 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined:
|
Omnivorous writes: Meeting-attending, T-shirt wearing, networking and cat-herding factions would arise to contest your hierarchical authority. Futile, as we have no network to infiltrate, and we're all anonymous. The movement's doing well, which is why you've never heard of it, apart from my indiscreet post above. It couldn't be better disorganized. If anyone is interested in the subthread topic, I've just been looking at the Atheism+Forum. I read one thread which had about 12 participants and 100 posts. 3 of the 12 got banned for not towing the party line, which took much of the interest out of the discussion. The forum rules are interesting. Learn how to recognise your Privileges, O White Man, and never, never, never call a female of our species a female (feminist, apparently, is fine).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
bluegenes writes:
Could you provide a link to that particular discussion? Thanks. I read one thread which had about 12 participants and 100 posts. 3 of the 12 got banned for not towing the party line, which took much of the interest out of the discussion."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
roxrkool Member (Idle past 1017 days) Posts: 1497 From: Nevada Joined: |
I never knew calling a woman a "female" was an insult.
In fact, I'm feeling decidedly unworthy to call myself an Atheist, much less a female... er, I mean a chick, a damsel, a lass, a tootsie, (crap!) I mean a slutty, unmasculine feminist Atheist doxy, after reading the Announcements portion of the Information and Answers forum. Sheesh! A comprehensive list of approved replacement words for the unfortunate "female" appears to be in order.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2505 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Panda writes: Could you provide a link to that particular discussion? Thanks. Link to discussion on Rebecca Watson article. It's actually very relevant to the history that triggered this little war. They already have a banned list of 64 people from their first two months of operation. But to say fair, there's a reason for this. Their enemies are turning up and many are being deliberately provocative (one of the bannings on the thread I read was for posting a tasteless sexist "joke" about violence to women, for example - although prior to that, the poster had been reasonable, and had received repeated warnings which did fit my "not towing the party line" description), so a siege mentality has developed. Unfortunately, that could lead to stifling any more reasonable criticism. All in all, a lot of the behaviour on both sides doesn't look good for "organized atheism" and the type of atheists who get involved in it. None of which has much to do with the overwhelming majority of the world's atheists, nor will it affect the inevitable growth of atheism, which is a phenomenon beyond our control.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
That site doesn't seem to have (or allow) any discussion.
It reminds me of EvolutionFairytale.com a bit. That is fine - if they want a place to hang out with like-minded people - why should I care.But it is dull to read. I, personally, like to have my beliefs questioned - else how would I know if they are correct?e.g. PRATTs might be annoying to people on this board, but I have actually learnt a lot from their rebuttals. "There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
roxrkool Member (Idle past 1017 days) Posts: 1497 From: Nevada Joined: |
You know, I read about this *elevatorgate* episode previously, just before I stopped reading Pharyngula, and I honestly didn't see the big deal at the time. I still don't. In fact, that might have been the last straw for me on Pharyngula, come to think of it.
Maybe I'm missing part of the story or something... Which is quite likely since I can hardly get through 5 posts on the subject before I feel mired in the dramatics and stop reading.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2505 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
roxrkool writes: I never knew calling a woman a "female" was an insult. In fact, I'm feeling decidedly unworthy to call myself an Atheist, much less a female... er, I mean a chick, a damsel, a lass, a tootsie, (crap!) I mean a slutty, unmasculine feminist Atheist doxy, after reading the Announcements portion of the Information and Answers forum. Sheesh! I've just checked that out. The glossary is fascinating. Sheesh indeed! From Atheism+ Glossary. First item (there are lots!).
quote: Plenty to debate on that one alone. Unfortunately, the glossary does not give us the "social justice definition" of "institutionalize".
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024