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Author Topic:   About New Lamarckian Synthesis Theory
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3638 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 181 of 264 (677937)
11-02-2012 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Taq
11-01-2012 5:37 PM


You seem to support a totally illogical situation: You now are forced by the evidence to accept that eoigenetic changes, inherited to many generations, accompanied with a lot of regulating mechanisms, loaded in specific epigenetic genome places, sudenly due to a random mutation , that leads propably evolution to different direction, are all wiped out and go astray.
What does that even mean? I really don't understand what you are trying to claim.... If that is not the mechanism you are trying to evidence, then why did you cite this paper?
My conclusions are independed and maybe different from auhors conclusions. They don't take into account the possibility of guided mutations. But they don't preclude it. This is their mistake.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Taq, posted 11-01-2012 5:37 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Larni, posted 11-03-2012 5:19 AM zi ko has replied
 Message 194 by Taq, posted 11-05-2012 12:40 PM zi ko has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 182 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 182 of 264 (677946)
11-03-2012 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by zi ko
11-02-2012 10:59 PM


I bet you can't show why it is a mistake.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by zi ko, posted 11-02-2012 10:59 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by zi ko, posted 11-03-2012 8:35 PM Larni has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3638 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 183 of 264 (677995)
11-03-2012 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Larni
11-03-2012 5:19 AM


An obvious mistake.
The mistake is self evident.After a work of maybe thousant of ys, during which epigenetic changes were accumulated together with many regulatory mechanisms,sudenly by a random mutation that most propably leads to a different direction of evolution all is cancelled and so all the previous work done is going astray. That is the stupidiest thing for nature to happen.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Larni, posted 11-03-2012 5:19 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by NoNukes, posted 11-03-2012 9:02 PM zi ko has replied
 Message 187 by Larni, posted 11-04-2012 11:43 AM zi ko has replied
 Message 195 by Taq, posted 11-05-2012 12:42 PM zi ko has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 184 of 264 (678001)
11-03-2012 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by zi ko
11-03-2012 8:35 PM


Re: An obvious mistake.
sudenly by a random mutation that most propably leads to a different direction of evolution all is cancelled and so all the previous work done is going astray. That is the stupiest thing for nature to happen.
It's almost as if Nature had no cognitive ability at all!

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by zi ko, posted 11-03-2012 8:35 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by zi ko, posted 11-04-2012 7:57 AM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 186 by zi ko, posted 11-04-2012 8:04 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3638 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 185 of 264 (678021)
11-04-2012 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by NoNukes
11-03-2012 9:02 PM


Re: An obvious mistake.
sudenly by a random mutation that most propably leads to a different direction of evolution all is cancelled and so all the previous work done is going astray. That is the stupiest thing for nature to happen.
It's almost as if Nature had no cognitive ability at all!
What is it so difficult to unnderstand? We all know that there is a continous information flow from environment to organisms and even to the genome,plenty of epigenetic changes loaded to particular genome areas, and many REGULATION MECHANISMS,constantly fuctioning. Do you ask, in this hard reality, if there is cognitive ability in nature? Of course not. It is a matter of choice between two, and only two, cases: either believe there is, or you think natural laws are enough to explain every thing. This is the hard fact. But now it is not our question for discussion.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by NoNukes, posted 11-03-2012 9:02 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Taq, posted 11-05-2012 12:44 PM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3638 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 186 of 264 (678022)
11-04-2012 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by NoNukes
11-03-2012 9:02 PM


Re: An obvious mistake.
sudenly by a random mutation that most propably leads to a different direction of evolution all is cancelled and so all the previous work done is going astray. That is the stupiest thing for nature to happen.
It's almost as if Nature had no cognitive ability at all!
What is it so difficult to unnderstand? We all know that there is a continous information flow from environment to organisms and even to the genome,plenty of epigenetic changes loaded to particular genome areas, and many REGULATION MECHANISMS,constantly fuctioning. Do you ask, in this hard reality, if there is cognitive ability in nature? Of course not. It is a matter of choice between two, and only two, cases: either believe there is, or you think natural laws are enough to explain every thing. This is the hard fact. But now it is not our question for discussion.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by NoNukes, posted 11-03-2012 9:02 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-04-2012 11:48 AM zi ko has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 182 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 187 of 264 (678030)
11-04-2012 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by zi ko
11-03-2012 8:35 PM


Re: An obvious mistake.
You still think empathy guides evolution, don't you? After all these years you haven't given up on it, have you?
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.
Edited by Larni, : I missed some punctuation.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by zi ko, posted 11-03-2012 8:35 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by zi ko, posted 11-04-2012 9:14 PM Larni has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 188 of 264 (678031)
11-04-2012 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by zi ko
11-04-2012 8:04 AM


Re: An obvious mistake.
We all know that there is a continous information flow from environment to organisms and even to the genome,
How is information flowing from the environment to my genome?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by zi ko, posted 11-04-2012 8:04 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by zi ko, posted 11-04-2012 9:04 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3638 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 189 of 264 (678061)
11-04-2012 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by New Cat's Eye
11-04-2012 11:48 AM


Re: An obvious mistake.
How is information flowing from the environment to my genome?
It is easy to know. Just read about epigenetics.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-04-2012 11:48 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-04-2012 9:55 PM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3638 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 190 of 264 (678062)
11-04-2012 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Larni
11-04-2012 11:43 AM


Re: An obvious mistake.
You still think empathy guides evolution, don't you? After all these years you haven't given up on it, have you?
It isn't time for it yet.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Larni, posted 11-04-2012 11:43 AM Larni has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 264 (678068)
11-04-2012 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by zi ko
11-04-2012 9:04 PM


Re: An obvious mistake.
How is information flowing from the environment to my genome?
It is easy to know.
What a total cop-out. You don't have any idea what you're talking about, do you? If it really was easy you could just tell me rather than just doing a total dodge.
You have no credibility and you're just making shit up. Its really kind of sad, actually.
Just read about epigenetics.
Where's the part where the information flows from the environment to my genome?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by zi ko, posted 11-04-2012 9:04 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by zi ko, posted 11-05-2012 1:16 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3638 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 192 of 264 (678080)
11-05-2012 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by New Cat's Eye
11-04-2012 9:55 PM


Re: An obvious mistake.
Where's the part where the information flows from the environment to my genome?
i give you time to be able to vomit all rotten material inside you.
On the opening post :
I quote.
Technology Review
I The effects of an animal's environment during adolescence can be passed down to future offspring, according to two new studies. If applicable to humans, the research, done on rodents, suggests that the impact of both childhood education and early abuse could span generations. The findings provide support for a 200-year-old theory of evolution that has been largely dismissed: Lamarckian evolution, which states that acquired characteristics can be passed on to offspring.
As i said it is easy.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-04-2012 9:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-05-2012 10:41 AM zi ko has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 193 of 264 (678107)
11-05-2012 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by zi ko
11-05-2012 1:16 AM


Re: An obvious mistake.
Where are these two studies? Do you have a link for them? What are their findings? What is their evidence?
Is so easy yet almost 200 posts in and you haven't provided anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by zi ko, posted 11-05-2012 1:16 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by zi ko, posted 11-05-2012 1:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10021
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 194 of 264 (678113)
11-05-2012 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by zi ko
11-02-2012 10:59 PM


My conclusions are independed and maybe different from auhors conclusions.
Then why are you citing the paper? If you are just going to find papers to disagree with then this discussion can not move forward. What you need to find is a paper that outlines the mechanism that is responsible for guided mutations.
They don't take into account the possibility of guided mutations. But they don't preclude it. This is their mistake.
In science, you need evidence for a mechanism before you can include it. Where is that evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by zi ko, posted 11-02-2012 10:59 PM zi ko has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10021
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 195 of 264 (678114)
11-05-2012 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by zi ko
11-03-2012 8:35 PM


Re: An obvious mistake.
The mistake is self evident.After a work of maybe thousant of ys, during which epigenetic changes were accumulated together with many regulatory mechanisms,sudenly by a random mutation that most propably leads to a different direction of evolution all is cancelled and so all the previous work done is going astray. That is the stupidiest thing for nature to happen.
It doesn't matter if you think it is stupid or not. Random mutations is what the evidence indicates, and you have not presented any evidence that would lead us to consider guided mutations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by zi ko, posted 11-03-2012 8:35 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by zi ko, posted 11-05-2012 1:43 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 199 by zi ko, posted 11-05-2012 1:44 PM Taq has replied

  
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