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Author Topic:   Do the Right Thing Tomorrow, Yanks
ooh-child
Member (Idle past 344 days)
Posts: 242
Joined: 04-10-2009


Message 91 of 203 (678374)
11-07-2012 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by xongsmith
11-07-2012 5:43 AM


Re: The Right Thing
Well, he did have that spendid ski house in Utah. I'm sure he & Ann would feel very comfortable amongst their comrades in Salt Lake.

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(10)
Message 92 of 203 (678380)
11-07-2012 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Percy
11-07-2012 8:46 AM


"How will the Future reckon with this Man?"
Man with a Hoe (Jean-Francois Millet)
I grew up in a poor working family in the midwest. My father finished seven years of school, was abandoned to an orphanage, went to war in the South Pacific at 18 and returned broken by malaria and wounds, and then worked for 43 years at the same paper cutting plant before dying at 63 from "white lung".
He was a remarkably intelligent man, with near-prodigy abilities at mental arithmetic and memory.
Our neighborhood was the cesspit of the city, the southwest corner through which the river carried all the effluents and wastes of undesirable industries: stockyards and slaughterhouses, creosote mills, sanitation plant, city dump and incinerator... The waters we played in changed colors daily.
Only the exceptionally gifted and/or extraordinarily fortunate escaped that life.
I found my first understanding of an anger I had always felt when I read The Man With The Hoe (Edward Markham) at age 10. I remember the day and the hour, the place and the weather, even the smell of the air that day. I wept and shook as I read it again and again.
I doubt Markham is taught much now; he's certainly not considered a major American poet. Here's opening and ending excerpts from the poem. It's readily found online.
quote:
THE MAN WITH THE HOE
by Edwin Markham
BOWED by the weight of centuries he leans
Upon his hoe and gazes on the ground,
The emptiness of ages in his face,
And on his back the burden of the world.
Who made him dead to rapture and despair,
A thing that grieves not and that never hopes,
Stolid and stunned, a brother to the ox?
Who loosened and let down this brutal jaw?
Whose was the hand that slanted back this brow?
Whose breath blew out the light within this brain?
Is this the Thing the Lord God made and gave
To have dominion over sea and land;
To trace the stars and search the heavens for power.
To feel the passion of Eternity?
...
O masters, lords and rulers in all lands,
How will the Future reckon with this Man?
How answer his brute question in that hour
When whirlwinds of rebellion shake the world?
How will it be with kingdoms and with kings--
With those who shaped him to the thing he is--
When this dumb Terror shall reply to God,
After the silence of the centuries?

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 93 of 203 (678383)
11-07-2012 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Percy
11-07-2012 8:46 AM


Re: On the election...
I like that a bit better than the old "When the poor starve, they will eat the rich."

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 94 of 203 (678410)
11-07-2012 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Percy
11-07-2012 9:30 AM


Re: The Right Thing
You should check that. I notice that you've put Nevada as a red state when it's been blue this election and indeed the last. (Yay us, shame about our education system.)

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(6)
Message 95 of 203 (678411)
11-07-2012 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
11-05-2012 11:27 PM


jar writes:
Obama is certainly not far left, not even a leftist and certainly to the right of Eisenhower, Theodore Roosevelt, Richard Nixon, Nelson Rockefeller, Barry Goldwater, and many other Republicans.
Over at Slate William Saletan writes to the same point.
I particularly enjoyed his concluding paragraph:
quote:
Cheer Up, Republicans
You’re going to have a moderate Republican president for the next four years: Barack Obama.
...
Obama’s no right-winger. You might have serious issues with his Supreme Court justices or his moves on immigration or the Bush tax cuts. But you probably would have had similar issues with Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, or Gerald Ford. Obama’s in the same mold as those guys. So don’t despair. Your country didn’t vote for a socialist tonight. It voted for the candidate of traditional Republican moderation. What should gall you, haunt you, and goad you to think about the future of your party is that that candidate wasn’t yours.
For me, one word sums of the importance of Obama's victory: SCOTUS.
Had Romney won, and had the opportunity to appoint one or more justices, the most regressive, reactionary ideas we've seen in many decades would have been enshrined for at least a generation, and decades of progress would have been rolled back.
I'd like to thank young voters in particular for saving their elders from their own worst impulses. So I will.
Thanks, kids. You're alright.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 11-05-2012 11:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(4)
Message 96 of 203 (678412)
11-07-2012 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Omnivorous
11-07-2012 4:47 PM


For me, one word sums of the importance of Obama's victory: SCOTUS.
Don't limit it to just SCOTUS; they hear only a very few cases a year. There are over 80 vacant Federal Judgeship positions right now.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 97 of 203 (678414)
11-07-2012 5:20 PM


Nate Silver Is A Witch
This is what fivethirtyeight predicted.
Look familiar?
Meanwhile, anyone who wants a good giggle should read the blog of Dean Chambers of unskewedpolls.com, particularly any post where he mentions Nate Silver. I'm still awaiting his post-election post, but perhaps he's just shot himself.

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 98 of 203 (678418)
11-07-2012 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Omnivorous
11-07-2012 4:47 PM


Bubbles
Me writes:
I'd like to thank young voters in particular for saving their elders from their own worst impulses. So I will.
Thanks, kids. You're alright.
Yes, I'm quoting and replying to myself. Get over it--I voted, we won, I get certain privileges.
Anyway, it has been pointed out to me (but not by me) that I should similarly thank women, blacks and Latinos. Thank you, one and all.
If I were onifre, I'd observe that a party full of black and Latino women is my kind of party. But I'm not, so I won't.
That set me thinking, especially in light of Coyote's comments on our liberal bubble. So I did some poking around for election analyses + liberal bubbles and ended up, again, at Slate.
A week prior to the election, Tom Socca offered a sharp (and hopeful) analysis of "identity politics" as disparaged by conservatives, while tackling the notion of Slate as a liberal bubble.
He almost persuades me that the Southern Strategy has gasped its last breath somewhere in a Fox News studio.
Why Do White People Think Mitt Romney Should Be President?
quote:
This has been the foundation of Republican presidential politics for more than four decades, since Richard Nixon courted and won the votes of Southerners who'd turned against the Democratic Party because of integration and civil rights. The Party of Lincoln became the party of Lincoln's assassins, leveraging white anger into a regional advantage and eventually a regional monopoly. It's all very basic and old news, but it's still considered rude to say so, even as Republican strategists talk about winning the white voters and only the white voters.
And he's real good on bubbles. It's worth a read.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 99 of 203 (678419)
11-07-2012 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Dr Adequate
11-07-2012 5:20 PM


Re: Nate Silver Is A Witch
Intrade called it pretty close too.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 100 of 203 (678427)
11-07-2012 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Omnivorous
11-07-2012 6:17 PM


Re: Bubbles
He almost persuades me that the Southern Strategy has gasped its last breath somewhere in a Fox News studio.
If the Republican party were run by rational people, then that would be correct.
My prediction - the Republicans will try to purge more RINOs and double down on stupidity. And they will be encouraged in doing this by the great echo machine of FAUX NOISE.
There are some smart Republicans who are trying to push the party to a more moderate line. But they have lost control of the party to the crazies.
I hope I'm wrong.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 101 of 203 (678428)
11-07-2012 9:06 PM


Republicans Reconsidering?
An occasional topic of conversation with colleagues over the past couple years has been that it would be poetic justice if the Republicans paid at the polls for their refusal to work cooperatively, instead playing games of budget chicken and holding vital legislation hostage to their uncompromising demands. The legislation forming the looming financial cliff is but one example, their refusal to raise the debt ceiling last year threatening to shut down government is another. Our feeling was that only a landslide at the polls would convince Republicans that they had taken the wrong course.
Even if Florida eventually falls Obama's way I don't consider the outcome of the presidential election a landslide. When back in 1980 Reagan beat Carter 489 to 49, now that was a landslide, here's the map:
In contrast, yesterday's electoral outcome was no landslide:
And the popular vote, 50% to 49%, was extremely close, so it seemed to me that the next four years would bring yet more governmental stalemate. But that the Republicans lost ground in both the House and Senate was yet another factor, and so apparently some Republicans are beginning to take the hint. A couple articles in today's papers indicate that in at least some quarters Republicans are considering that perhaps a more moderate course could work better for them. I won't go into details, but here are links to a couple articles:
The Republicans apparently do sense that their stands on women's issues and on taxes on the rich have to be moderated, and they realize that the blame for the legislative stalemate is falling mostly on their shoulders. But they feel stymied by what they view as a necessary appeasement of the Christian far-right. And they know that white males are their foundation and that that base is diminishing as the Hispanic population becomes an increasing proportion of our population. They have no solutions at this time, but at least they're aware of these and other important issues.
24 years ago George Will wrote this of the Democrats:
"How many times does the electorate have to hit the Democrate Party across the bridge of the nose with a crowbar before the party gets the point? Remarkable beast, that party. Its nose breaks crowbars."
Throughout the Obama administration the Republican Party has seemed similarly irrationally stubborn, but hopefully they now get the point, for only when they do will the stalemate in Washington finally come to an end.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Fix link.

  
ooh-child
Member (Idle past 344 days)
Posts: 242
Joined: 04-10-2009


Message 102 of 203 (678433)
11-07-2012 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by nwr
11-07-2012 9:05 PM


Re: Bubbles
I think the monied Republicans will finally realize the tea-baggers are losing them the Senate - now twice in a row. They'll retain control of the RNC brand, forcing out the fringe.
The Randian Conservatives will break out & follow a Paulite, w/ a Senator already in place. They'll peel off quite few pundits & other money makers, as well as the crazies like Nugent & Victoria Jackson. I predict she'll be featured on the next installment of Trump's apprentice atrocity.
Question is - who will get Ryan's endorsement? He's still in place to be a player in 2016.

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 103 of 203 (678435)
11-07-2012 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Dr Adequate
11-07-2012 5:20 PM


Re: Nate Silver Is A Witch
Can someone perhaps explain why it is such a big deal that this Nate Silver fellow predicted correctly? From what I gather, his doing so says a great deal about the science behind statistics or something? I ask because I have heard a lot about it and it seems important.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 104 of 203 (678436)
11-07-2012 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by hooah212002
11-07-2012 10:21 PM


Re: Nate Silver Is A Witch
It means that we'll be able to abolish the whole tedious and expensive business of elections and just ask Nate Silver to tell us who the winner is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by hooah212002, posted 11-07-2012 10:21 PM hooah212002 has replied

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 105 of 203 (678437)
11-07-2012 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Dr Adequate
11-07-2012 10:41 PM


Re: Nate Silver Is A Witch
Dr Adequate writes:
It means that we'll be able to abolish the whole tedious and expensive business of elections and just ask Nate Silver to tell us who the winner is.
Well, it seems kind of drastic, but if it means no more political ads or robo calls, then okay.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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