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Author Topic:   Do the Right Thing Tomorrow, Yanks
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 106 of 203 (678438)
11-07-2012 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Dr Adequate
11-07-2012 10:41 PM


Re: Nate Silver Is A Witch
It's answers like this that are the reason I asked here and not on reddit.... Thanks anyways.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-07-2012 10:41 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3944
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 107 of 203 (678441)
11-08-2012 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by hooah212002
11-07-2012 10:50 PM


Exit poles etc.
I think one great value of poles and pole results leading up to the election, and exit poles at the election, is a check on the election results.
If the precinct exit pole results deviate significantly from the precinct election results, suspect that some sort of fraud has happened.
Once again, I was an election judge at our little local precinct. We had 132 voters on the registered voter roster and about 18 time of voting registrations, for a total of about 150 registered voters. Of course, some of those on the roster were no longer voters in the precinct. We had 127 voters total (127/150 = 85% turn out).
Voter density peaked at 4 there at the same time. The only waiting at all was if you needed to register.
The precinct is pretty liberal, but apparently getting a bit more conservative:
Obama, 88
Romney, 29
House of Representatives district 8
Rick Nolan (D), 91
Chip Cravaak (R-Incumbent), 28
I don't offhand know the overall totals, but 1 term Cravaak went down, returning the seat to the Democrats. Prior to Cravaak, the seat was held by James Oberstar (D), 18 terms. Prior to that it was John Blatnik (D) for 14 terms. It is a pretty solid Democrat district.
Cravaak was the only of 8 House incumbents (8 Minnesota districts) to go down, although the Michele Bachmann race went down to the wire (~1% margin in the end). Bachmann's district is very conservative, and the analysis is that she did lag badly, relative to the more local Republican candidates.
Amendment 1 (outlawing gay marriage, which was already illegal by state statute) went down locally 76 no and no votes, 46 yes (a non-vote=no). It also went down statewide.
Amendment 2 (require photo ID to vote) went down locally 89 no and no votes, 33 yes. It also went down statewide.
Both the Minnesota House and Senate turned from Republican to Democrat majority. The Governor is a Democrat. Now we shall see if the anti-gay marriage statute goes down.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Added another Bachmann sentence.

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
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ooh-child
Member (Idle past 364 days)
Posts: 242
Joined: 04-10-2009


Message 108 of 203 (678442)
11-08-2012 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by hooah212002
11-07-2012 10:50 PM


Re: Nate Silver Is A Witch
Have you seen the movie Money Ball?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web...
It's the same concept - old guard pundits & managers vs. new-fangled tech computations. Guts & truthiness fight actual numbers, run through a system.
I happen to prefer Nate Silver & Jonah Hill types, but I'm just weird that way.

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.4


(1)
Message 109 of 203 (678532)
11-08-2012 9:33 PM


Here's another interesting Electoral College map, distorting state size by population (Romney's team has now conceded Florida):

- xongsmith, 5.7d

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 110 of 203 (678557)
11-09-2012 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by xongsmith
11-08-2012 9:33 PM


Here's another interesting Electoral College map, distorting state size by population ...
I wonder if it is always possible (in every hypothetical case, I mean) to do that without leaving any holes, preserving the borders between any two given states.
My gut tells me the answer is probably yes, but my gut is only 60:40 on the issue. Besides, it's occasionally wrong. Does anyone have any information on this: a theorem or a counterexample?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 203 (678562)
11-09-2012 2:03 AM


It won't last but...
Fox News is funny again! Watching Karl Rove implode, and Hannity explode over the last couple of days has been entertaining.
Karl Rove claims President Obama won reelection by 'suppressing the vote' — New York Daily News
quote:
Appearing Thursday on Fox News, Rove insisted that Obama won because he succeeded in suppressing the vote with negative ads that turned off voters, keeping them from the polls.
Fox News host Megyn Kelly didn’t buy it, interrupting Rove by saying, But he won, Karl, he won!

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 203 (678564)
11-09-2012 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by xongsmith
11-08-2012 9:33 PM


Here's another interesting Electoral College map, distorting state size by population (Romney's team has now conceded Florida):
Both the red and blue states harbor large populations of "vote traitors" who refused to vote according to state color. Any map that doesn't disguises a mere 2 point margin between Obama and Romney, but purports to show some kind of domination of the public for one party or the other is inaccurate.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by xongsmith, posted 11-08-2012 9:33 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1044 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 113 of 203 (678568)
11-09-2012 3:53 AM


Dissappointment
You know, on the whole, I'm a bit disappointed by this election. After the foregone conclusion of four years ago, I was expected a nail-biting, white knuckle ride this time. It was all supposed to be 'down to the wire' as the news kept promising ad nauseum in the buildup; before the results started coming in pundits kept jabbering about the long night ahead of them.
Instead, everything was already settled and Romney had conceded before I got up for work on Wednesday morning (which, bearing my timezone in mind, is only 2:00 am on the east coast). Long night indeed.
And now that Florida's settled, just have a look at the map. One state changed hands. One!
Call that an exciting election? Thank god Real-Dortmund was a good match, or I can't think how Tuesday evening could have been duller.

Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3944
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 114 of 203 (678572)
11-09-2012 5:33 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by caffeine
11-09-2012 3:53 AM


Re: Dissappointment
It was all supposed to be 'down to the wire' as the news kept promising ad nauseum in the buildup; before the results started coming in pundits kept jabbering about the long night ahead of them.
Apparently the Romney camp was convinced the poling was bad and the above quoted was true.
Romney shellshocked, because he believed his own bullcrap
quote:
The GOP's reality-distortion field went all the way to the top.
"We went into the evening confident we had a good path to victory," said one senior [Romney] adviser. "I don't think there was one person who saw this coming."
Thus, it was crushing when reality intruded their fantasy world.
More there.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by caffeine, posted 11-09-2012 3:53 AM caffeine has seen this message but not replied

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 203 (678579)
11-09-2012 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Minnemooseus
11-09-2012 5:33 AM


Re: Dissappointment
quote:
[T]hey believed the public/media polls were skewed - they thought those polls oversampled Democrats and didn't reflect Republican enthusiasm. They based their own internal polls on turnout levels more favorable to Romney.
But a leaked memo showed that Romney's own numbers included a loss in Ohio. I think Romney's camp was in full denial, and that any of these excuses for why are a product and not the cause of that attitude.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-09-2012 5:33 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 203 (678582)
11-09-2012 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by caffeine
11-09-2012 3:53 AM


One state, but its us.
And now that Florida's settled, just have a look at the map. One state changed hands. One!
Yeah, but that state slid way into the abyss. The current Democratic governor did not even run and McCrory pounded the candidate the Dems came up with. Republicans have veto proof margins in both state legislative chambers. On social policy, NC is continuing its slide back into Rebelhood.
Locally, Democrats did well enough, but statewide, NC election results are pretty depressing. At least we don't have anti-Obama riots on university campuses like one state did.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by caffeine, posted 11-09-2012 3:53 AM caffeine has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 117 of 203 (678584)
11-09-2012 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by caffeine
11-09-2012 3:53 AM


Re: Dissappointment
And now that Florida's settled, just have a look at the map. One state changed hands. One!
Actually, two. Indiana and North Carolina. Unless my brain has suddenly become dumb and I can't remember facts any more.

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 118 of 203 (678602)
11-09-2012 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by hooah212002
11-07-2012 10:21 PM


Re: Nate Silver Is A Witch
Can someone perhaps explain why it is such a big deal that this Nate Silver fellow predicted correctly?
I've heard a few things. One is that Nate's methods included poll aggregating which seems to aggravate the people who spend money and time polling. Nate predicted a Republican loss at a time when Republicans wanted to believe otherwise, which seemed to aggravate even more people. And he did so using science/math. Then he had the gall to be right.
If Nates methods are right, then a lot of money spent trying to generate contrary results was wasted.
I don't think it is important. But as a child I remember reading a science fiction story where elections were conducted by picking out a single person and asking him a bunch of largely demographic questions and then generating an election result based on his responses. The story must have been Franchise by Isaac Asimov.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by hooah212002, posted 11-07-2012 10:21 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 356 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 119 of 203 (678613)
11-09-2012 11:08 AM


Winner of Third Party Election!!!
So, as I mentioned earlier, if it would not have taken a vote from Obama, I wanted to vote for Gary Johnson...
....well, I would like to point out that if Obama and Romney were to disappear, good ol' Gary Johnson would have it by having the most votes of all of the third party candidates! Well done, Gary, well done!
Edited by Tempe 12ft Chicken, : No reason given.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. -Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. -Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. -Neil Degrasse Tyson

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 120 of 203 (678641)
11-09-2012 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by hooah212002
11-07-2012 10:21 PM


Re: Nate Silver Is A Witch
Can someone perhaps explain why it is such a big deal that this Nate Silver fellow predicted correctly? From what I gather, his doing so says a great deal about the science behind statistics or something? I ask because I have heard a lot about it and it seems important.
OK, seriously now.
If you read what conservatives were writing before the election, they had one consistent theme: "Anyone who believes that Obama can possibly win is living in a little bubble isolated from the facts and protected from reality by the MAINSTREAM MEDIA and especially by Nate Silver, who may have called the 2008 election correctly but this time around is a lying partisan hack 'cos we don't like the things he says. He has deceived the liberal sheeple with all his talk of math and science, but we are not deceived, we know better because of our telepathic connection with AMERICA!"
Well, if they were sane, now would be a great time for them to revise their opinions about who is living inside a bubble. If they could think, now would be a great time for them to think about how Nate Silver called every single state correctly, whereas the pundits on Fox News were completely wrong about their prediction of a Romney electoral landslide. And they could think that Nate Silver was not partisan at all, and just did the math.
I don't suppose this is going to happen, 'cos these people do not in fact think. But wouldn't it be great if they did?

This message is a reply to:
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