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Author Topic:   Where is the point?
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


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Message 1 of 45 (678721)
11-09-2012 12:07 AM


I have been trying to frame this subject for some time and can't seem to get it right so I will just throw it out there.
I want to ask you what you think the point of life is. The problem is that I am supposed to frame it in such a way that demonstrates my position clearly. This is a problem because... it's a question... and I don't have a clear position and because my research is incomplete.Hopefully really incomplete but I guess it can't go on for ever. Although, I guess that it does as far as I am concerned.
I suspect that you are in a similar situation and that some of you may have actually arrived at a conclusion. So I will frame it this way.
What is the best that you can expect to get from or achieve with your life?
Now that I have married and procreated and trying to get laid doesn't occupy my every waking moment, it occurs to me that there isn't much of a point to it at all. The only one that makes any sense to me is the pursuit of the answer to this very question.
What is your answer to the absurdity of life? What guides your compass and where do you spend your time?
Edited by Dogmafood, : Expand

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Admin
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Message 2 of 45 (678722)
11-09-2012 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dogmafood
11-09-2012 12:07 AM


Gee, I like this proposal! I don't generally promote to the religion/philosophy forums, so I won't do so in this case, but I hope to see this promoted soon.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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AdminPhat
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Message 3 of 45 (678724)
11-10-2012 8:13 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Where is the point? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
I'm hoping that you wanted to pursue this question in a belief/philosophical vein. Anyway, here we be.
Edited by AdminPhat, :

  
Tangle
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Message 4 of 45 (678725)
11-10-2012 8:16 AM


The obvious first question is Why do you think there needs to be a point to life?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Phat
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Message 5 of 45 (678728)
11-10-2012 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dogmafood
11-09-2012 12:07 AM


The Point Of Life
What is the best that you can expect to get from or achieve with your life? I can expect to get out of it as much or more that I put into it. This seems to be a basic law.
Now that I have married and procreated and trying to get laid doesn't occupy my every waking moment, it occurs to me that there isn't much of a point to it at all. The only one that makes any sense to me is the pursuit of the answer to this very question. Thus, for you, answers to questions seems to be a purpose in and of itself. Your responsibility, as I see it, is to ask better and better questions. There is no final answer that I see you aware of.
dogmafood writes:
What is your answer to the absurdity of life? What guides your compass and where do you spend your time?
I work to pay rent. And buy food. And fix the car. And take my dear Mother out for brunch now and then. Apart from that, I work and in so doing I react with people. Customers. Coworkers. People whom I believe were put in my life for a reason. What that reason is is irrelevant. It is that it is.
I also volunteer my time as a mentor to one lad at a time. I believe that I help them find meaning in life. Meaning is sparked by and through relationships. My response here to you, in fact, may well help you find meaning to that absurdity you speak of. I hope that it does, at any rate.
Finally, I work with G.R.A.S.P, a local organization that helps youth find a purpose apart from gangs. It is rewarding for me, but more importantly I hope that my presence makes it helpful to them. Ideally both them and I find meaning and love in it.

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Phat
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
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(2)
Message 6 of 45 (678731)
11-10-2012 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Tangle
11-10-2012 8:16 AM


Why?
other opinions
Why do you think there needs to be a point to life?
Gosh I dunno...perhaps a better word than point is motivation. Why do I think there needs to be a motivation? Better still, what is my motive for this response?
  • Communication
  • Sense of purpose
  • on a mission from God?
  • killing time?

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    Bolder-dash
    Member (Idle past 3629 days)
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    (5)
    Message 7 of 45 (678735)
    11-10-2012 8:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Dogmafood
    11-09-2012 12:07 AM


    Well, you have already said you have married and had children, so getting laid isn't a recreational pursuit (it is still one of my old favorites, but certainly I have others).
    So aren't there things that you simply enjoy and look forward to doing? Like watching your child develop, creating projects that you can do together with him or her-like building a model sailboat, or teaching them how to ride a bike. Don't you like thinking of things that would surprise your wife and make her happy, or planning a family trip together, or creating activities for your family to do together. And what about your own developmental projects, learning a new language, training for a marathon, learning to oil paint, volunteering at a charity, going on a safari....
    All kinds of people, in much less developed places than America find a point in life of simply learning and doing things. I read someone once said that the reason a God created tragedy and hardship, is because without it people would do nothing useful other than having sex and sleeping. Having said that, I don't see anything wrong at all with having a point in life of looking forward to doing the next fun thing.
    Maybe the point is not wasting so much time looking for a point. Or how about just trying for improvement.

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    Dogmafood
    Member (Idle past 348 days)
    Posts: 1815
    From: Ontario Canada
    Joined: 08-04-2010


    (3)
    Message 8 of 45 (678781)
    11-10-2012 10:35 AM
    Reply to: Message 4 by Tangle
    11-10-2012 8:16 AM


    Pointless
    The obvious first question is Why do you think there needs to be a point to life?
    Well that is a good question. We carry on as if there were a point to it. Just look at the freeway on a Monday morning. Up close there is a point to the things that we do. Further out the point seems to evaporate. I think that the benefit of this thread might be to expose some of our irrational behaviour. To highlight the larger insignificance of our actions or to identify some hidden importance. To point out that having the most stuff is probably not the point.
    When I examine the reasons behind any action that I might undertake, I always find that there is an expected result or a point to the action. Whenever I fail to find that point or when the point is exposed as being irrational I tend to discontinue the action. I am projecting this expectation of rationality outwards to include the totality of my existence. Is it wrong to do so and if so at what point does it become wrong?
    Don't mistake my position. I am in no way suicidal and there is lots of joy in my life to keep me wanting more. It is just that when I step back and look at the big picture it appears to have no point. There is a disconnect between the rationality of the near matrix of my existence and the irrationality of the matrix as a whole. This is the same disconnect that shows up at the edges of causality and the concept of the infinite.
    It sure doesn't look like there is a point and if the spot is empty then I suppose it is free for the taking. If you are free to choose your raison d'etre what would be your choice? We all carry on without actually identifying some all encompassing point as there are plenty of up close and personal reasons to do things. I guess my question is how far can we extend those threads of reason?

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    Tangle
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    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
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    Message 9 of 45 (678784)
    11-10-2012 10:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 8 by Dogmafood
    11-10-2012 10:35 AM


    Re: Pointless
    The feelings you have are not at all unique; you'd be a peculiar person if you didn't have them. Everybody has looked into a starry sky at some point in their life, felt utterly insignificant and wondered what the point was.
    This is one reason God was invented - to create a point and to feel significant. (The other is to explain to children why granddad has died.)
    Once you accept that there is no endgame, no reason for your existence or otherwise, life can begin and you can get pleasure from the small things in life.

    Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    This message is a reply to:
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    Omnivorous
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    Message 10 of 45 (678788)
    11-10-2012 11:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Dogmafood
    11-09-2012 12:07 AM


    ‘Ama, et fac quod vis’
    Dogmafood writes:
    What is your answer to the absurdity of life? What guides your compass and where do you spend your time?
    Love, beauty, truth and pleasure.
    I've never had any other specific goals in life, nor a practical compass to steer by. If I did, I suppose the above would serve as cardinal points.
    From them I can derive more pragmatic guides: to be kind and generous, to stay clear of boredom, to see clearly and not, for example, ignore insults to the first three in service to the fourth: don't let your baby down.
    I'm as atheistic about a "larger meaning" to life as I am about a Creator: I've seen no evidence of either one, and, even if either or both existed, we're too recently evolved beyond pond scum to have any sound ideas about them. Since I bear lesser relationship to the universe than an atom to my body, it's difficult to imagine that I have even trivial significance, and even more difficult to imagine the universe offers me a golden compass for my infinitesimal voyage.
    Still, I do have a romantic streak. Back when I considered myself an agnostic, I sometimes thought our notions of gods might be intimations of our future selves--if there were to be god-like beings and meanings in the universe, those are what we must become and create.
    Mostly, Omnis just want to have fun.

    "If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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    Dogmafood
    Member (Idle past 348 days)
    Posts: 1815
    From: Ontario Canada
    Joined: 08-04-2010


    (2)
    Message 11 of 45 (678794)
    11-10-2012 11:54 AM
    Reply to: Message 9 by Tangle
    11-10-2012 10:52 AM


    Re: Pointless
    Everybody has looked into a starry sky at some point in their life, felt utterly insignificant and wondered what the point was.
    Yes, staring into the fire. How many billions of minds have contemplated the same?
    Once you accept that there is no endgame, no reason for your existence or otherwise, life can begin and you can get pleasure from the small things in life.
    I don't know. That seems like a regression. We start out in blissful ignorance and get lots of joy from the little things. We mature to a state of deeper understanding and our joy (and misery) is felt to a much greater degree. Far deeper and with an exponential intensity.
    The joy found in the understanding of a thing is far greater than the joy that is built on ignorance. For me anyway. I feel compelled to reject the absurdity of life and I prefer to view it as an obstacle and not a parameter.
    There is a line from the movie 'The Kingdom of Heaven' that goes, 'What is a man that he does not make the world a better place?' So that seems like a fairly valid idea. This is not really in opposition to seeking your own pleasure but rather identifies the fact that we get pleasure from making the world a better place. That is a greater good than pleasure for my own sake but it comes from seeking my own pleasure. Why is life that way and what will it lead to? Is this a point?

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    nwr
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    Message 12 of 45 (678796)
    11-10-2012 12:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Dogmafood
    11-09-2012 12:07 AM


    I want to ask you what you think the point of life is.
    If there were a point, then we would all be slaves working toward that point. Life would be unbearable. In fact, life would then have no point.
    But, because there is not a point, we get to make of life what we want. And that's why life now does have a point.
    (I guess I made that sound a bit paradoxical)

    Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    (4)
    Message 13 of 45 (678800)
    11-10-2012 4:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 8 by Dogmafood
    11-10-2012 10:35 AM


    Re: Pointless
    I wasn't going to post anywhere but on the DNA questions thread but this one is just too tempting, even though I'm pretty sure I'll only get unwelcome responses. Oh well.
    I just think your questions are awfully intelligent. You really think about these things. So did I before I became a Christian. I strongly felt that life is meaningless, pointless, and I looked for meaning and found none. Not that I couldn't find plenty to occupy me pleasantly and productively in my little rut, but the question is, as you know, much bigger than that, and the happiness of the rut often serves only to blind us to the bigger picture.
    I can't help but make this a gospel message I suppose although I'd like just to state the simple fact that when I became a believer I DID find meaning. I was NOT looking for God, I knew nothing about the gospel at all, nobody preached to me, or if they did I didn't hear it, tuned it out. It came up behind me and hit me on the head as it were. Through books. I read my way to belief in the God of the Bible over a period of a few years. I didn't join a church until years later. It took a while for the message of salvation to sink in: Salvation? Saved from what? Etc. etc. etc. I had a lot to learn. But the learning was immense joy.
    About the "meaning of life," which is what you're asking about, the line from the hymn "Oh Holy Night" has always said it for me and it can still make me cry: "Then He appeared and the soul knew its worth." The soul knew its worth. If all we are is chemicals thrown up by mindless mechanical laws how can we have any worth? All the productive or pleasurable things we do, good deeds or whatever, give us no worth if we're just going to return to dust at the end of it all. That's what the question is about, isn't it? But now I know that the human soul has worth. All human souls. I wish all of you knew that.
    So back to the DNA thread.

    He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

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    Omnivorous
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    From: Adirondackia
    Joined: 07-21-2005
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    (1)
    Message 14 of 45 (678801)
    11-10-2012 4:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
    11-10-2012 4:04 PM


    Howdy, ma'am!
    Hi, Faith. I'm happy to see you here. I hope all is well.
    I'm pretty sure I understand what you say, though you may disagree. I'll respond more later.
    For now, I just wanted to tip my hat and say welcome, pilgrim.

    "If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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    jar
    Member (Idle past 393 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    (2)
    Message 15 of 45 (678802)
    11-10-2012 4:36 PM


    If there is just "a point" then it's pretty sad.
    IMHO it would be really sad if there was just one point or goal. We are individuals and live within time and so "the point" should be unique to the individual and a given moment.
    I can't think of much that could be sadder than reaching the goal or finish line or the soul knowing its worth. The point should just be a starting point, never an end.

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

      
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