|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 61 (9209 total) |
| |
The Rutificador chile | |
Total: 919,507 Year: 6,764/9,624 Month: 104/238 Week: 21/83 Day: 0/4 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Global Warming is a Scam | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
First of all I did not say die, so quit misrepresenting what I say. Billions will not thrive. Actually your statement was ambiguous. Here is the an excerpt from Message 139.
foreveryoung writes: Not only will we survive it; we will thrive in it. Theodoric writes: Except for some billions of people. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hooah212002 Member (Idle past 1060 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
|
Humans need water more than anything to survive, so Waterworld is what we should strive for. Let's flood the earth so we have more water.
"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4069 Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
|
All plants need CO2 to live. That is my evidence. By that logic: Global warming > melting polar ice caps > more water > all people need water to live > thriving people. I don't particularly want to debate you on whether climate change is due to human influence, simply because I think that at this point that fact is moot - it doesn't matter whether humans are causing it, we have to deal with it at this point whether we're the cause or not. The problem of climate change is that the climate of the Earth is not simple...and therefore simple predictions like "more CO2 > more plants > more food" just don't matter. The various species (all forms of life) that inhabit the Earth's biosphere are specifically adapted to their climate. Changes in local environments lead to mass migrations and die-offs...but when we take the scale global, we see all hell break loose. The biosphere is a complex set of interrelated and interdependent balanced ecosystems. Let's provide a single example: In the Gulf of Mexico today, there are "dead zones." These "dead zones" were not caused by the recent oil spills - they are older than that. They are the result of algae blooms - increased plant growth due to excess fertilizer runoff, basically - not terribly different from what one would imagine if increased atmospheric CO2 actually leads directly to increased plant growth. The problem is that plants, including algae, produce oxygen. THis is a problem because oxygen (beyond a certain level) is toxic... as well as the fact that the process is unrestrained and the algae consume all of the CO2 in the "dead zones" until all other plants die off. The result is that the ecosystem in these regions is completely disrupted from the ground up, killing everything in hundred-mile areas of the ocean. All from an unintended and unforseen consequence of using fertilizer to grow more crops for humans. What will the results of increased CO2 in the atmosphere be, leaving aside the greenhouse effect? I don't know, and neither do you, except that we know that it will disrupt the delicate balance of a complex series of interdependent ecologies upon which human life depends.The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds ofvariously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
No, I don't. It temporarily absorbs long wave radiation then re -releases it. That's a darn good description of the green house effect. Nice one.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.1 |
Lindzen
quote:Source Lindzen Illusions Misrepresentation from Lindzen As for Spencer his claims have all been debunked.. He is an IDer that is letting his religious views affect his science. An easy web search will show counters by many scientists against his views. Try reading a few. You are not being scientific. You have come to a conclusion and are looking for evidence to support it. Read both sides with an open mind. Look at the science not the spin. Spencer is a crank that has been shown to be wrong by numerous people. His conclusions do not stand up to the evidence. Edited by Theodoric, : wrong name on last paragraphFacts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10302 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
Not only will we survive it; we will thrive in it. There will be greater food production and a greater diversity of new species.
We are already seeing vast areas of coral dying because of rising ocean temps. We are also seeing massive droughts in the American heartland which accounts for a very large chunk of the world's agriculture.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10302 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
|
What I mean is that nobody can point to the evidence and show that every warming period was preceded by an increase in carbon dioxide. Of course that is not the case. Past warming trends were not caused by the burning of massive amounts of stored fossil fuels. Can you show anywhere in the ice cores where CO2 has been higher? The answer to that is a resounding "NO". Current atmospheric CO2 is well above any level seen in any paleoclimate record. Why do you think that is?
They also cannot show that increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is not the result of warmer ocean temperatures. I have no doubt that CO2 released by warmer oceans is adding to global warming. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!! We put 1 unit of CO2 in the atmosphere that causes a set amount of warming. That heats the oceans and releases even MORE CO2. This additional CO2 warms the oceans and atmosphere even more leading to less ice. Less ice reflects less heat back into the atmosphere and warms the oceans even more adding more CO2 to the atmosphere. This warming again starts to heat up the permafrost near the poles and releases massive amounts of methane which is an even stronger greenhouse gas. Methane also oxidizes over time into CO2. Are you starting to see a trend here? This is why CO2 is considered to be a forcer, a gas that changes atmospheric temperatures and has a long residence time in the atmosphere.
Until someone can show there are no periods of increased carbon dioxide that are not accompanied by an increase in temperatures, all evidence is merely circumstantial.
Until you can show that the laws of physics suspend themselves to where CO2 no longer acts as a greenhouse gas then the evidence is quite solid.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10302 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
|
No, I don't. It temporarily absorbs long wave radiation then re -releases it.
Quite right. A portion of that re-released radiation will be directed back at the Earth. Therefore, CO2 causes the Earth to heat up by bouncing heat back at the Earth, heat that would have otherwise radiated out into space. That is why CO2 is a greenhouse gas. It is simply physics. The more CO2 you have in the atmosphere the more heat that is trapped. There is no getting around it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.1
|
Another consequence of CO2 build up in the atmosphere seems to be an increased concentration in the oceans, which leads to acidification of the oceans. Increased acidification inhibits the production of CaCO3 by marine organisms such as corals and shellfish.
I am constantly amazed that the deniers think we can endlessly dump the byproducts of human activity into the biosphere without consequences.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Larni Member (Idle past 112 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined:
|
These people are so convinced that carbon dioxide is the culprit for recent warming and for all past warming that it is impossible for them to consider otherwise. There you go again with your of hand dismissal of perspectives that don't conform with your own.
The other sources of heat come from within the earth and from the sun. If you were to pull enough carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere to where it was just 270 ppm, what would the temperature of the earth be. Once you give me that figure, can you tell me how you arrived at it? Why don't you do the work yourself? Clearly anyone else has already be indoctrinated to a preconceived world view.
It doesn't because doctors who have gone to medical school are not pushing an agenda. How can you be so naive? Half the doctors are in the pocket of Big Pharma, the other half have directorships in elective surgery clinics (that they refere patients to) and the remaining half are too busy feathering their own nests to keep up with the state of the art. You are very trusting, mate. Edited by Larni, : No reason given.The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10302 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
|
If we wish to prove that Fred Brown killed John Smith by stabbing him with a knife, it is not necessary to prove that every death was preceded by Fred Brown stabbing someone with a knife.
This point needs to be stressed more. A common refrain from AGW opponents is that the Earth has gone through cooling and warming periods in the past. It is also true that the initiation of these cycles was probably not CO2, although it could have played a secondary role. All of the evidence points to Malinkovich cycles being the main forcer in previous warming periods: Milankovitch cycles - Wikipedia All of this is very, very true. However, this doesn't change the fact that adding CO2 to the atmosphere will increase global temps. What may have muddied the waters is people claiming that CO2 initiated those past warming cycles when in fact CO2 probably just made the warming cycle peak at a higher temp. That is, the increase in energy reaching the oceans due to the changes in Earth's orbit and wobble was magnified by the release of CO2 from the warming oceans. Now we have the opposite effect. Increasing CO2 is heating the oceans causing the release of even more CO2. Human produced CO2 has simply replaced the previous initiation process. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.1
|
You made some outrageous claims inMessage 128 that I questioned in Message 133
Me writes: Foreveryoung writes: Climate scientists who have graduated college, do have an agenda or already had their mind made up before they went to college, otherwise any paper they published that severely contradicted current CO2 dogma would be denied. And what is this agenda? Please provide some sort of evidence for this assertion?Is there a conspiracy? If so why? Who is leading it? Please address this with some sort of evidence. You merely claiming this does not suffice.Or do you not have any evidence but again just something you are parroting? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ramoss Member (Idle past 870 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lurkey Junior Member (Idle past 4346 days) Posts: 11 Joined: |
David Attenborough says its true
Edited by Lurkey, : No reason given.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024