Where is the point?

There is no "point" to life...except what we choose for ourselves. The "meaning if life" is only one of the "great questions" because it has no set answer. The "point" changes over time, for each of us.It sounds like your great philosophical dilemma is rooted in the fact that you have achieved that which was most important to you: you have a family. In effect, you "beat the game" and now you don't know what to do.But nobody can tell you what the meaning of your life is or will be. You can only decide for yourself what makes you feel fulfilled.

In reading through the various responses it seems to me that we have to differentiate between the meaning for our lives as individuals and for the meaning of life collectively and ultimately.Sure I find meaning in life by having kids and raising them along with other facets of life, and we all have different ideas on how to get the most out of life. I also think that what we do does matter ultimately but the is part of my Christianity. I suppose that the atheistic POV would be that there is no ultimate meaning and that what matters is essentially the here and now and the impact that might have on the near future. I'd be interested to know if you atheists would agree with that.

Don't restrict it to the "near" future, but essentially, yes.What we do matters because our actions affect other people, both our contemporaries and our descendants.More, this is the only life we have - we don't get some magic reset button for a new life after death. We can't wait for heaven, because it will never come. The world is how we choose to make it, collectively, and whether we make it a paradise or a hell is up to all of us.To make a movie reference: "God doesn't make the world this way. We do."There's no metaphysical reason for anything...but people have value, and improving the lives of people is a worthy goal without the empty promise of heaven.

OK but from a Christian perspective I don't understand the goal to be heaven. I agree with your goal but I believe that your goal in life in some way is a foreshadowing of, and a part of, a renewal of this world as opposed to leaving this world behind for some spiritual existence elsewhere whatever that might mean.

Many Christians have many goals...in the end, we all determine the meaning of our own lives, even when that means choosing from among religious interpretations. For some, heaven is a significant factor, and for others it is not.I emphasized heaven only in pointing out that I feel that an atheistic perspective with no afterlife provides a firmer foundation for working to improve the world - it's not okay to just give up and hope the afterlife will be better, because this is all we have.And frankly, I don't care what metaphysical belief you attach to what I think is important in life (clearly I disagree) - but I'm always happy when others agree that improving this world is a worthy goal, and I think that's far more significant than whatever else we use to dress it up.

Excellent post Stile. Really clear and thought provoking. Only after you run out of reason.I take your distinction that life does not exist in order to reproduce but rather exists because it reproduces. I also see the condition that any kind of an uberpoint must reside in the mind of a God of some sort which is a bit of a revelation to me.Can we even conceive of a point to it all without some greater consciousness?

I see your point but as a Christian I believe that I have a very firm foundation for wanting to improve this world because unlike the atheist who has to believe that at some point in the future this world will cease to exist, (even if it's only when the sun burns out), I believe that this world in a renewed form is eternal. Amen

It seems that FEY feels very uncomfortable about this discussion.He hasn't taken part, but he has 'jeered' almost every post - regardless of the poster's religious/philosophical/scientific position.
(hehe - I can imagine him screaming "HATE!!!" everytime he clicked the jeer button.)
I suspect he is near either a breakdown or a breakthrough.On the plus side (see what I did there?) I have 'cheered' every post that FEY 'jeered'.
So, his 'contribution' has been cancelled out.Perhaps, if others 'cheer' posts that FEY 'jeers' then we could make blanket 'jeers' counter-productive.
{abe} Decided that 'cheering' wasn't a good enough solution. 'Cheers' revoked.Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Way ahead of you, dude...

What a bunch of bullies! Wow! Leave the guy alone. If his behavior is beyond what is acceptable here, then ban him for pete's sake, but this kind of ganging up on the guy is indefensible.He did some reasonable posts on the creationist road trip thread, I think I'll go add my cheers against the jeers he of course collected there. Not to get even with anybody, but I sincerely thought they were decent posts that didn't deserve the jeers. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I see he jeered pretty much every post in the 'what's the point' thread last night regardless of what was posted, he couldn't have even read them.Perhaps he's working through the whole board.........

They are only talking about cheers and jeers. Sure, it is rather silly but it doesn't exactly correspond to what "ganging up" suggests.

Obviously, whether we 'cheer' or 'jeer' a post is our own decision, but we should always read the post first.
Instead, in this thread, FEY was 'blanket jeering'.
He even jeered your own Message 13.

Thanks, I like this sort of thing. I agree.
In the context of something like "I have children, so therefore the point of my life is to take care of those children..." reason can have an important role in finding a point to life. Did I say that?
Maybe when I said this:

quote:

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Humans were not built with a specific function in mind.

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I would say that a God/creator is required for there to be an "objective/absolute" point to life.
But I wouldn't use the term "uberpoint" because that carries a level of "greater/better" to it.
My thoughts are that even if such an objective/absolute point was made available to us, it wouldn't matter:

quote:

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And, of course, it doesn't matter anyway.
Let's assume "the point to life" actually is to reproduce (or whatever else).
So what?
Let's say I don't want to reproduce (or whatever else). Let's say I just want to own a hotel chain.
Therefore, reproducing (which bears a heavy load of responsibility... time and finances) will take me away from owning a hotel chain.
I will be sad (frustrated... angry... whatever).
So how is it good to be following reproduction as "a point to life" if I don't agree with it?

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It's not good at all, that's because it simply doesn't matter.

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The point to life (the thing/s that will make you happy and satisfied... the only point that actually matters...) is irrational in it's very nature. It's subjective, and extremely personal.

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-italics added to clarify the idea

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You can assume the objective/absolute point from a God/creator to be anything... if you don't agree with it, it doesn't matter. In that sense, the uberpoint is the one that comes from ourselves. The one that comes from ourselves is greater/better than any other. This is because even if we were built for an exclusive purpose by God/creator, the purpose from God/creater would be subjective in context (to Him)... even though it would be objective in context to us. Our intelligence and consciousness allows us to create our own subjective points to life. This is what makes us different from hammers. We are not inanimate objects. Our subjective concept is "on par" with another being's subjective concept. Even if that other being is a "greater consciousness" or "our creator" or whatever. Well, actually, it will vary with the context... but if the context is "a point for our life" then it's actually our subjective concept that is greater than a God/creator's subjective concept. Perhaps.
My idea is that it doesn't matter, because even if we ever do... the only point that matters is still the one we come up with ourselves. Maybe we will agree with one from a greater consciousness, but that's still our choice, and therefore still "from ourselves."

Human beings are story tellers. We learn new things well when they are tied to a story with some narrative structure (even if its the narrative of a historian or scientist). And all good narratives have some structure to them, a beginning a middle and an end. And by the time you reach the end, you expect there to have been some point for the telling of the story. Be it a lesson in heroism, or cowardice, love, respect, whatever. Stories are filled with the main character learning something important; the whole story is some narrative directed towards some purpose or purposes.But when we turn this love affair of narrative on something that isn't actually written by any known author, we find ourselves quite rightly struggling to find some purpose above and beyond our own temporal ones.The inescapable punchline is that there is no point, and our feelings that their should be are just our story-telling instincts kicking in. There is no point in my life any more than there is in the sun's 'life'. I just am, and there are certain consequences that arise because of that.I can find reasons to take part in the struggle that is life, I can voluntarily adopt purposes as I will. But I can't make there be a point to life in general. There is no author.But let's just say that there was one. Where is the point, then? Even if there were one, it seems mankind is powerless to discover it. And its certainly not established that all lives actually serve any particular point to whatever narrative goal (or otherwise) it's driving towards. One's purpose may simply be to work until you die so that the economy ticks over. That's it, the author needed a working economy and created a bunch of implied characters that were doing just that.Of course, wrestling with the absence of any real point to any of this malarcky, has caused discomfort and upset to many - which is certainly not to be taken lightly. But as has been said elsewhere - once you realize there is no point, it then becomes up to you to make one. And that liberation is worth any existential horrors you might go through to get there.