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Author Topic:   29% of UK teachers favor teaching creationism
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 29 of 103 (681416)
11-25-2012 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Granny Magda
11-25-2012 3:10 PM


Re: Just a little "fundamentalist" Anglophilia lamentation
Granny Magda writes:
We lost those "blessings" because the people we had robbed took back what was theirs. But yes, the British treated their subjects appallingly and paid the price for it, but by far the greater price was paid by their victims. Apparently, you see this as part of God's plan. It seems like a monstrous plan to me.
Perhaps it was monstrous in the motivations of the british rulers at the time. However, it was par for the course for europe and america during colonial times. It is just how things were done. The british rulers probably didn't feel they were doing anything monstrous either as they probably figured they we doing God's will by bringing uncivilized savages into the "civilized" world and showing them a better way to live. If britain had not colonized India, that country would still be living in the dark ages. Consider the wealth of that country today with the wealth of the country before it was colonized. Would most indians today prefer to live like they did in precolonial times with the standard of living that came with that time? I would say no. So, the process was monstrous, and the motivations were monstrous when looking through 21 century sensibilities, but the outcome was hardly monstrous when compared to life before colonization.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Granny Magda, posted 11-25-2012 3:10 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 11-25-2012 4:19 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 37 by Granny Magda, posted 11-25-2012 4:44 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 35 of 103 (681427)
11-25-2012 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
11-25-2012 4:19 PM


Re: an aside on history
jar writes:
Actually India was wealthy, perhaps far more wealthy, before the British. It was that wealth that Britain wanted. In fact the Mughal Empire was both wealthy and culturally advanced with more religious freedom than many European nations.
So, you claim that the average indian today is less wealthy and living in worse conditions than the average indian before colonization? Do you stand by that claim?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 11-25-2012 4:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 11-25-2012 4:47 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 42 of 103 (681437)
11-25-2012 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
11-25-2012 4:47 PM


Re: an aside on history
I am not talking about whether ordinary britains were worse off than ordinary indians before colonization. I am talking about whether or not indians were better off as a result of colonization. I claim that the average indian today is much better off today than his ancestors were in precolonial india. Do you agree or not?
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 11-25-2012 4:47 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 11-25-2012 5:10 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 48 of 103 (681446)
11-25-2012 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Granny Magda
11-25-2012 4:44 PM


Re: Just a little "fundamentalist" Anglophilia lamentation
Granny Magda writes:
None of it matters. Only the actions and their motivations matter.
To what point does it not matter? To what point does only actions and motivations matter?
Granny Magda writes:
The truth is that Britain acted out of greed and arrogance.
So what? What is your point?
Granny Magda writes:
That their actions had some positive outcomes does not mitigate this.
Agreed, but to neglect the greater good that occurred as a result of colonization and to focus on the evil of the actions is a dishonest appraisal of the whole situation.
Granny Magda writes:
I understand that the imperialists of the time did not view themselves as evil, but what does that matter?
It matters, because you have to be aware that you are committing evil in order to be given the same status as someone who does evil knowingly and without caring about it.
Granny Magda writes:
Hitler did not view himself as evil.
Hitler was just as evil as the greater part of europe who thought jews were subhumans and blamed all of societies problems on them. Hitler knew that he hated the jews and all non aryan people and he knew it was wrong to do so. You cannot say the same for much of the people involved in india's colonization.
Granny Magda writes:
The slave owners of America did not view themselves as evil.
They were not evil. They were a product of their generation. Nobody thought that slavery was evil at the time. Only after men became enlightened on the subject, did they view it as evil. In order for them to be evil, they had to be consciously aware of the evil of their actions.
Granny Magda writes:
Men will always find a justification for their evil acts.
True, but the slave owners did not seek justification for their evil acts because they didn't view them as evil in the first place. Hitler and the rest of europe did know it was evil to hate a whole race of people. They were guilty of justifying their acts.
Granny Magda writes:
It should not surprise us that the Imperialists of the past sought to shroud themselves in piety and claim divine support for their criminal acts,
They would have to view their acts as criminal before they could seek justification for them. They thought about the role of the british empire in a pious way long before they ever thought about taking action on it. The british people were very religious and thought of themselves as divinely favored. They took this view before taking any actions based on such attitudes.
Granny Magda writes:
but for Faith to do the same, in the Twenty-first Century, is profoundly offensive.
If Faith is claiming that the british colonization of india was in the will of God, such that God approved of it in every last nasty detail and evil act, then she is sadly mistaken. God may have allowed it because it was the best possible outcome considering all the other possibilities that are unknown to us. But to say that God wanted it all to go down exactly like it did and approved of all the humanity involved in it, is a horrendous idea, and if faith is thinking like that, then she needs to rethink her theology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Granny Magda, posted 11-25-2012 4:44 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 11-25-2012 5:37 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 56 by Granny Magda, posted 11-25-2012 6:07 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 64 of 103 (681474)
11-25-2012 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Granny Magda
11-25-2012 6:32 PM


Re: Just a little "fundamentalist" Anglophilia lamentation
Granny Magda writes:
The Empire, for all the good you might find to say about it, was deeply unethical and immoral.
No more immoral than it is today. It is just immoral in different areas. I would say that the british common folk are vastly more immoral than their ancestors during the times of colonialism.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Granny Magda, posted 11-25-2012 6:32 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Larni, posted 11-25-2012 7:37 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 66 of 103 (681478)
11-25-2012 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Larni
11-25-2012 7:37 PM


Re: Just a little "fundamentalist" Anglophilia lamentation
The average posting on this forum from people from the UK. The way you people think and your standards of morality and your lack of belief in God are horrible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Larni, posted 11-25-2012 7:37 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-25-2012 8:27 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 75 by Larni, posted 11-26-2012 3:54 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 71 of 103 (681495)
11-25-2012 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Dr Adequate
11-25-2012 8:27 PM


Re: Just a little "fundamentalist" Anglophilia lamentation
Your post just confirmed what evil sons of bitches people from the UK are. Go crawl back under the rock you came from you slimeball.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-25-2012 8:27 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-25-2012 11:22 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-26-2012 6:38 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
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