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Author | Topic: Is God good? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kofh2u Member (Idle past 3842 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
None of that is in the bible.
?Its all in the Bible if one reads comprehemsively. The OP is using his interpretation of the bible to accuse God of being cruel and unworthy of human appreciation. I am stating that de facto, God made Gentiles who worshipped baal, whose idol was the phallus.he also made the Jews who were patriarhs acting exctly like the muslims of today. Eveny ou and the mods can see the dynamic now at work, between the sexually promiscuous West and the sexually repressive Islam.
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Eli Member (Idle past 3513 days) Posts: 274 Joined: |
You can't even tell the difference between what is on and off topic. Your inability to think critically in such a rudimentary way makes it self evident that being able to "read comprehensively" just isn't in the cards for you, son.
You really are the last person in the forum to be deciding what contitutes comprehensive reading. You seem to have a major learning disability.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3842 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
You can't even tell the difference between what is on and off topic. Your inability to think critically in such a rudimentary way makes it self evident that being able to "read comprehensively" just isn't in the cards for you, son.
So sez you. It seems to me that the opening post accuses god of being evil simply by insisting that the flood was a very bad deed. Yet you, who pretend to be rational about this, think I don't make sense in defending God by saying the whole extermination 40,000 years ago was just the Reality we are all trapped inside. It doesn't matter if God killed off all the men in the Noah story or if we compare the extinction of 40,000 years agoEvolution is a good thing. God then is good for having this Law of Survival because other wise man would never have evolved. Now all the above is ON TOPIC.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3842 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
"Is God good?"
Yes.God progressively eliminated inferior species in our ascent as he allowed us to develop into the dominant species of the moment. God is good for us. But he also creates the evil of extinction for us if we will not agree to adapt to the world, like stopping our own wars against ourselves. Isa 45:7
I, (almighty Reality), form the light, and create darkness: I, (both Friend and Foe of the living), make peace, and create (the environment for possible great misfortune), evil: I, (both Friend and Foe to life and man), the LORD, (of the living), do all these things, (naturally, through the environmental forces).
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Eli Member (Idle past 3513 days) Posts: 274 Joined: |
There wasn't an extermination 40,000 years ago and no, the biblical flood is not about evolution.
You are not on topic.
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Isa 45:7 I, (almighty Reality), form the light, and create darkness: I, (both Friend and Foe of the living), make peace, and create (the environment for possible great misfortune), evil: I, (both Friend and Foe to life and man), the LORD, (of the living), do all these things, (naturally, through the environmental forces). This seems pantheistic to me....but then again, describing God is not easy.....even though you make Him up, He conforms His reality to our imaginations....
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1963 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
If the God of the Old Testament was so evil to perform certain judgmental acts, why didn't Jesus Christ teach so in the New Testament ?
Where is His discourse condemning the flood of Noah? Where does Jesus condemn the defeat of the Amalakites or the Midianites ? Where does Jesus condemn the judging of Sodom ? Jesus does not seem like the man to be foolishly partial. He seems like the kind of teacher to be completely frank, candid about the real situation. He is most qualified to decide on the actions of God in these stories. I want to know WHY Jesus of Nazareth, who so extensively commented on the Hebrew Bible, did not include condemnation of the alledged evil acts of God in Genesis through Malachi. Jesus constantly claimed this God was His Father, even His "Righteous Father" (John 17:25) Maybe some of your moral discernment is not sufficiently wise. Who was more equiped to pass judgment on these biblical events than Jesus ? He did not. Rather He warned us all that we too would be judged unless we repented to believe in Himself. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9145 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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Perhaps some poster here feels he or she is more qualified than Jesus Christ to ascertain such moral issues? Yes I do think I am more qualified. As I am more qualified than Dionysus, Isis or Mithra.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1963 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Yes I do think I am more qualified. As I am more qualified than Dionysus, Isis or Mithra. Theodoric, FIRST you have to jump through hoops and all kind of gymnastics to associate Jesus of Nazareth with Mithra, Isis, and Dionysus. I think that that fancy footwork has been debunked already. You are going to have to buy into a lot of foolish lies in order to use guilt by association to lump Christ and Isis or Christ and Mithra together. You need someone very very gullible.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9145 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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I think that that fancy footwork has been debunked already. Nope. Not debunked at all. None of them have any contemporary evidence for their existence.
You are going to have to buy into a lot of foolish lies in order to use guilt by association to lump Christ and Isis or Christ and Mithra together
You are going to have to buy into a lot of foolish lies in order to accept the Jesus of the bible unquestioningly. The Jesus of the bible offers no new or better moral code than anything before or after.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3842 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Isa 45:7 I, (almighty Reality), form the light, and create darkness: I, (both Friend and Foe of the living), make peace, and create (the environment for possible great misfortune), evil: I, (both Friend and Foe to life and man), the LORD, (of the living), do all these things, (naturally, through the environmental forces). This seems pantheistic to me....but then again, describing God is not easy.....even though you make Him up, He conforms His reality to our imaginations.... 1) The idea is pan-en-theistic.'That means God is everything that is not you.God is what it is that exists, that claims, "I am," and is present with you, interacting and reacting to you. God is Reality. God includes everything that is separated from your conscious thinking inside you head. Your seven senses inform you that something other than you is here, doing things and reacting to you.Yoiu try to develop Truth about this entity so you can decide what it actually is. 2) Man makes up fantasy worlds by falsely preceiving the one Reality which we all must leard to face. That Reality is almighty, as the second death of the extinction of the whole species reminds us. The Noah tale is a clue to recognizing that what I say define God, but the "proof" that the Father is the entity we call Reality came in 32AD. Christ said, "I am the Truth," (which is an ideal), "and the way" (into understanding Reality), "and the Life" (which really exists for us who face the Facts-of-Life). So, logically, if the "son" is Truth, his "father" must de facto be the ever unfolding Reality which sires that Truth in its wake. IS THIS ON TOPIC?YES. The defense wins when we see this is a God who is just accused of being the Reality men do not like to face and accept. Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1963 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Nope. Not debunked at all. None of them have any contemporary evidence for their existence. Want to change the discussion to something about historical evidence for Jesus' existence ? I am going to try to stay with the topic here for awhile. Seems some posters open up an avenue of criticism only to want to jump over to another debate. (maybe not you) Here is have admitted that SOME instances in the Bible of God's actions are not easy for me to explain. However, some in the past seemed wrong, but with more experience and understanding I thought differently. Based on this I, like Abraham, have a hope "Shall the Judge of all the earth not do justly? " (Genesis 18:25) In the wide scope of varying actions recorded the spectrum goes from the end of very very kind all the way to the other side of very very harsh. I expect that a revelation of God would include many varied examples of His workings. Though it is tempting to argue that we have more good evidence for believing the historicity of Jesus than for that of Alexander the Great or Socrates, I think I stick with the questioned goodness of God for now. Maybe some specific examples should be discussed in detail.I don't see genocide in the Canaanite conquest. I do see that He gave those sinful societies 400 years plus another 40 years to disperse their centers of evil. I see that God told Abraham that He would not bring the Hebrews into Canaan yet for another 400 years, essentially because the Amorites had not gotten bad enough yet. God was waiting until they merited such a harsh conquest. Then He gave them an additional 40 years. I think that only the hardest of the hard were left. And evidence that the comments about killing everything the breaths was the typical military talk of the day in the ancient near east. Upon careful reading it is clear that not EVERY single member of those societies was exterminated. We still see Amalakites in the land after the conquest. So Joshua had obviously not literally exterminated them. Other evidences is that combatants were the on the brunt of the warfare in some cases. That would be fighting soldiers resisting. God's instructions also were to tear down their altars and destroy their idols more so than to commit extermnation. He wanted the societies scattered, dispersed. I think only the most resistant combatants may be the brunt of descriptions of every breathing one was killed. I have never seen God's command that anyone be raped.What the Bible records as having happened is not always what the Bible teaches as what should be done. Skeptics that lay hold of divinely ordained raping in the Bible seem to totally disregard unquestionably clear Levitical laws concerning the subject. The laws concerning the captive women of defeated enemies seemed tailored to protect the women from rape. She is given time also to mourn her parents before she is to be MARRIED if the capture so desires to MARRY her. Of course an unmarried captive woman was in bad shape and probably would either starve or resort to prostitution. So all things considered, I think some skeptics do not play the "bad God" card too well. At any rate my Bible doesn't end with the book of Joshua. Shouldn't we view Jesus as having the last word on God's will ? And the New Testament redemption would not make sense unless God spent some time to demonstrate His hatred of sin. The backround of the divine displeasure of God against man's sin is the reason why the Son of God giving up Himself on the cross for man's sin is all the more impressive. How much sense would the Gospel of Luke make immediately following Genesis? A firm backround in God's righteous and sometimes harsh judgment of man's sins makes the redemptive death of Jesus for all the more meaningful. Paul called the Old Testament law "the ministry of condemnation". Why not keep reading past the flood of Noah and the burning of Sodom to view how God's Son bore in Himself the penalty of divine eternal judgment in Himself on Calvary's cross?
jw: You are going to have to buy into a lot of foolish lies in order to use guilt by association to lump Christ and Isis or Christ and Mithra together Theo:You are going to have to buy into a lot of foolish lies in order to accept the Jesus of the bible unquestioningly. Who said I had no questions? I can enjoy the availabilty and reality of the Jesus I met and still have some questions. I have good questions. But I also think I am on the right track to believe in Jesus.That's another discussion.
The Jesus of the bible offers no new or better moral code than anything before or after.
Jesus is the only Teacher I can think of who said that we could enter INTO Him as a realm, abide in Him, remain in Him as a living sphere. He does not come to leave us a way. He comes to BE the way Himself. He comes to join His victorious life with ours in an "organic" union:
"He who is JOINED to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) He gives HIMSELF to man. He lives in man via a new birth. He gives man Himself in resurrection as their life to be blended into our life. No other teacher said so. Quote if I am in error. Give me the equivalance in Confucius or Buddha or Mohammed of them saying something like:
"Abide in Me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me." Give me a example of another moral teacher saying something like this:
"In that day [the day of His resurrection] you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me and I in you." (John 14:20) Who else spoke this way Theodoric? I am out here on a limb now. Show me your example. And it should not be someone since Jesus, imitating Jesus. Who else said that He and His Father, God, would come to make an abode in the ones who love Him?
"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23) Who is the other teacher who said he or she would come to make an abode with the one who loves Him ? Jesus didn't offer really a new or better moral code other than HIMSELF living in us.
"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" ( Cor 15:45) His teaching is the He will rise from the dead and be AVAILABLE to be known and had communion with and fellowship with.
'Behold, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matt. 28:30) "Abide in Me and I in you" (John 15:4) means that He is alive and knowable, enterable. This is the essence of the Gospel message. He is alive and available to us to enjoy. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3842 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
You are going to have to buy into a lot of foolish lies in order to accept the Jesus of the bible unquestioningly. The Jesus of the bible offers no new or better moral code than anything before or after. How about Truth as the foundation for supporting our social behavior, is that a good foundation for a moral code or Social contract??? Jesus said he physically presented himself as the personification of the ideal, Truth, because that is the "way" to shed light into the Reality men must face of suffer. Can we absolve God from these accusations that he is evil by recognizing the Truth about things like the destructive sexual behavior in America? With Single Mothers now drawing $1 Trillion dollars a year in Welfare can we avoid collapse whike Islamic patriarchs interrupt our Economic System? Can America continue to freeze citizens out of the major cities because of the high high high crime rates maintained by the kids these Single Mothers raise? With illegitmacy at half of all births in America now, can we politiclly ignore the Realities and avoid the Truth and survive?? Is there ANY other social entity but Religion in the discussion of our present Social Contract which tells the Truth about this Sexual Revolution that is destroying America? Is God good because he sent Christ to remind us about the Truth and the Way and the Life we hope will not become extinct???
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3842 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Want to change the discussion to something about historical evidence for Jesus' existence ?
No.Stay on Topic. God is Good for sending us The Truth as a bench marker in 32AD, Truth was here before Abraham. We do not need to establish a Jesus historically, since he merely personified the ideal of Truth which we all know is the lord.i.e.; Everyone here pretends to the Truth of what he argues. What we need now is honesty. The Democrats lie and the Republicans fear the Truth will alienate the sexually permissive single women, teenage guys, Welfare recipients, Black intercity voters, pro-abortion mothers of young daughters, sexually over active Gays, free condom Harlots, etc. Only the Church could speak up if it were not discredited as foolishly anti-science and full of pedaphiles. Welfare = Military Budget Welfare $1 trillion in 2011'Welfare' spending topped $1 trillion in 2011, study shows | Fox News 70% of violent crime = kids raised by Single Mothers:
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
jaywill writes: Who was more equiped to pass judgment on these biblical events than Jesus? Did Jesus give me my brain? Assuming yes, then I would say that Jesus has made me "more equipped to pass judgement on these biblical events." I would even go on to say that Jesus wants me to pass my own judgement. If not... why would He have given me a brain?
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