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Author Topic:   The SEVEN "DAYS" WERE GEOLOGICAL ERAS
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 310 (682456)
12-02-2012 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 1:35 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
Fine. So explain the correspondence of Day 4 of Genesis to any Day four in your Geological Era.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 1:35 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 2:48 PM NoNukes has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2563 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 47 of 310 (682460)
12-02-2012 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by NoNukes
12-02-2012 2:23 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...

So explain the correspondence of Day 4 of Genesis to any Day four in your Geological Era

That is very constructive criticism.

Day four focuses on the idea that a Solar clock, even a moon calendar and Sidereal accounting for time had become necessary since like had previously appeared.

Correct academically and scientifically, Genesis had stated that the Plant Kingdom had appeared and was evolving on the previous "day," during the Eo-archean era and the early Paleo-proterozoic morning of the Proterozoic Era, i.e.; Third Day.

What Genesis 1:14 is telling us concerns the Circadian rhythms the life forms must utilize in their metabolic processes.
But the ficus of Solar time and the first recognition of Time as related to earth time apparently was also a literary technique to allow us to see these first seven "days" could not be 24 hour units.
It was a clue to the reader of this Age who can now choose to read genesis with a sense of truth in regard to science.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 2:23 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 310 (682471)
12-02-2012 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 2:48 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
What about the placing of lesser lights in the firmament during day four? That is not what happened.

What about the creation of sea mammals before land mammals? That isn't according to the evidence.

The fourth day interpretation is a bit forced, IMO.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 2:48 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 6:38 PM NoNukes has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33098
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 49 of 310 (682473)
12-02-2012 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by NoNukes
12-02-2012 6:30 PM


Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
Isn't Genesis 1:1 kinda forced? Is there any need to go beyond the first verse to dismiss the scientific accuracy of Genesis?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 6:30 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 7:05 PM jar has responded
 Message 53 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 9:06 PM jar has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2563 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 50 of 310 (682475)
12-02-2012 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by jar
12-02-2012 6:38 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.

Isn't Genesis 1:1 kinda forced? Is there any need to go beyond the first verse to dismiss the scientific accuracy of Genesis?

Yes, it is forced in the sense that I hope to show that as we compare science with Genesis we shall even see that seven (7) is the favored number of science as it is the Bible's.

For instance,... The second day:

http://kofh2u.tripod.com/id16.html

Gen. 1:6 And, (Father Nature, Reality), “God,” said, Let there be a firmament, (seven layers of atmosphere), in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the (evaporated) waters from the (seven collections of condensed) waters.

The Firmament above:
1) Tropo-sphere
2) Strato-sphere
3) meso-sphere
4) Thermo-sphere
5) Iono-sphere
6) Magneto-sphere
7) Exo-sphere

The Firmament below:

The firmament below:
1) ocean
2) inland seas
3) lakes
4) rivers
5) underground water
6) glaciers
7) atmospheric water vapor


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 6:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 8:44 PM kofh2u has not yet responded
 Message 52 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 8:53 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 51 of 310 (682477)
12-02-2012 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 7:05 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
These seven groupings are extremely arbitrary. For the lower firmament, no mention of ice caps, ponds, streams, creeks. If you are going to include glaciers you should include the polar ice caps at least.

For the upper firmament, you include the ionosphere, but that overlaps with several other layers on the list. It usually is not included in a list of atmosphere layers. Yet you don't mention an ozone layer, or overlapping layers such as the heterosphere and the homosphere.

In short you are simply stopping at seven and forcing stuff up to seven if needed. Nothing special here.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 7:05 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33098
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 52 of 310 (682479)
12-02-2012 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 7:05 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
Sorry but you are just posting more bullshit. There is no mention in Genesis 1:6 of Father nature or reality, that's just you making shit up. There is no mention in Genesis 1:6 of seven layers of atmosphere, that's just you making shit up. There is no mention in Genesis 1:6 of seven collections of condensed waters or evaporated water, that's just you making shit up.

And it doesn't matter, Genesis 1 was scientifically falsified at verse Genesis 1:1.

There's no real problem you making up shit or posting bullshit IF you could actually post some bullshit that was interesting, had some value or had any connection to reality. Keep trying though, there's always hope.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 7:05 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 310 (682480)
12-02-2012 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by jar
12-02-2012 6:38 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
Is there any need to go beyond the first verse

I think there is. Science says nothing about God, so my arguments related to inconsistencies will deal with what Genesis says God did and when. You can make a different argument if you choose, but I won't use God did not do it as an argument.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 6:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 9:34 PM NoNukes has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33098
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 54 of 310 (682482)
12-02-2012 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by NoNukes
12-02-2012 9:06 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
But that is not the argument I would use.

Genesis 1:1 says;

quote:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


So the first verse says that the earth and the waters were created on day one. If kofh2u wants to claim that the seven days are geological eras then on day one, era one, the earth was created.

The Sun and moon do not get created until day four and the earth did not get created before the sun.

Then he switched to some history of the expansion in Message 4 where day one is the inflationary stage. Well the earth was not created then either.

The fact is that no matter how you try to slice it or squeeze science into Genesis, the evidence won't let anyone get past Genesis 1:1.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 9:06 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 9:54 PM jar has acknowledged this reply
 Message 56 by arachnophilia, posted 12-02-2012 11:30 PM jar has acknowledged this reply
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 310 (682483)
12-02-2012 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
12-02-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
His current claim is that day 1 includes everything from the big bang up until the formation of the earth and that day 4 does not include making the sun and moon, but has some other meaning. I'm going with that for now. That still leaves him to explain what fixing the lesser lights in the firmament means. I've asked him twice to explain that.

I am calling that a day 4 problem, but I can see why you might insist that it is a day 1 problem. I prefer letting him have some rope.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 9:34 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by kofh2u, posted 12-03-2012 12:05 AM NoNukes has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 87 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 56 of 310 (682484)
12-02-2012 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
12-02-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
jar writes:

So the first verse says that the earth and the waters were created on day one.

no no, jar, we've been over this. the first verse is a subordinate clause that says that says "when god began to create". the water was already there (it wasn't created) and the earth was created on the third day.

Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 9:34 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2456 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 57 of 310 (682485)
12-02-2012 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 1:55 PM


Re: Selective learning
kofh2u writes:

http://scienceray.com/.../step-by-step-guide-to-the-big-bang
Published by George Firth
August 13, 2009, Category: Philosophy of Science


George Firth lists nine (9) eras.
But you only quote eight (8).

Why did you 'forget' to quote all nine of the eras in George's post?
Why are you excluding the other eras I listed?

There are clearly more than 7 cosmological eras - even your own link says that.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 1:55 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by kofh2u, posted 12-03-2012 12:16 AM Panda has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2563 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 58 of 310 (682486)
12-03-2012 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by NoNukes
12-02-2012 9:54 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.

That still leaves him to explain what fixing the lesser lights in the firmament means. I've asked him twice to explain that.
I am calling that a day 4 problem, but I can see why you might insist that it is a day 1 problem. I prefer letting him have some rope.

1) You are unusually reasonable and open to a fair critical analysis of the ideas presented.
Constructive criticism is always useful in getting toi understand the issues and to be certain the idea is thoroughly understood before making decisions or giving into a personal bias for having had seen things quite differently until this was introduced just a few hours ago.

This suggests a high level of intellectual honesty regardless of whether in the final analysis one decides for or against the subject undr examination.

2) In regard to the fourth day, which was actually the Neo-proterozoic evening of the Proterozoic Era and the Cambrian morning of the Paleozoic Era...

Genesis uses six (6) verses to tell us about what took place.
That allots more space to this day than all the other descriptions of events during other days.
I suspect the reason was that this whole interjection into the story was intended to get or attention to this very matter, whether Genesis is talking about 24 days or eras.

We must admit that this idea would have been impossible to discuss before this Age since the truth is almost unbeoeievable.
yet, if the writers intended us to finally see this a scientifically correct, these six verses are key.

3) Let me write out the six verses with bracketed comments and explanations interjected in the context so we can analyze what I am saying:

Gen. 1:14 And God, (The First Cause), said, Let there be (Sidereal Time), lights in the firmament of the heaven, (for the reason) to divide the (12 hour) day from the (12 hour) night; and let them be for (the purpose of) signs, (astronomical, symbolic references), and for (the purpose to designate) times, (the four seasons), and for (the 24 hour period to be called) days, (the "day" of 24 hours as distinguished from the days of long Eras), and years (of 365 day):

Gen. 1:15 And let them be (time keepers) for (sources of) lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth (such that the Earth day might regulate the circadian rhythms of the new life forms which had just appeared): and it was so.

Gen. 1:16 And (Father Nature, the force behind the ever unfolding Reality), God, (with almighty authority) made, (i.e.; assigned these) two great lights (to be the time keepers); the greater light to rule (time during) the day, and the lesser light to rule (time during) the night:
(With almighty authority), he made the stars also (to keep Earth time as a Sidereal Clock).

Strong's Concordance
Transliteration:

`asah = made [H6213] =
made: [asah] = appointed, ordained, instituted

Gen. 1:17 And God, (Father Nature, Reality), set: [Hebrew: nathan = appointed, assigned, designated] them, (Sun, Moon, and Stars), in the firmament of the heaven (for the purpose of keeping Earth time by means that they were) to give light upon the earth,

nathan
verb
Set
1) to give, bestow, grant, permit, ascribed, employed, devote, consecrate, dedicate, pay wages, sell, exchange, lend, commit, entrust, give over, deliver up, yield produce, occasion, produce, requite to, report, mention, utter, stretch out, extend
2) to put, set, put on, put upon, set, appointed, assigned, designated

Gen. 1:18 And to rule (with authority) over the (cycle of the @12 hours) day and over the (cycle of the @12 hours) night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God, (Father Nature, the force behind the ever unfolding Reality), saw that it was good.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 9:54 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by NoNukes, posted 12-03-2012 6:29 AM kofh2u has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2563 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 59 of 310 (682487)
12-03-2012 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Panda
12-02-2012 11:33 PM


Re: Selective learning

These the seven Eras up until now which I see mentioned in the Link:

1) The Planck Era
2) The Inflation Era
3) The Quark Era
4) Hadron Era
5) Lepton Era
6) Nucleosynthesis Era
7) Opaque Era

NOW, The Hadean Era = Matter Era


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Panda, posted 12-02-2012 11:33 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Panda, posted 12-03-2012 8:05 AM kofh2u has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2563 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 60 of 310 (682488)
12-03-2012 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
12-02-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.

So the first verse says that the earth and the waters were created on day one

Actually, checking the meaning of the word "waters," I am interpreting Gen1:2 this way:
which, unlike your choice, would be academicaly and scientifically correct:

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, (a spinning cloud of molten matter and gases), and void: (not valid as a sphere yet- i.e.; an accretion disk), and darkness: [choshek: obscurity] was upon the face (of the disk) of the deep: [tehowm: the deep primeval abyss of the thick ring].
And (the great Shechinah), the spirit, (the pan-en-theistic Natural Laws) of God moved upon the face: [paniym: presence] of the "waters" (i.e.;Hebrew meaning: "of these transitory things" spinning counter clockwise around the Sun: [mayim: Hebrew])

NOTE:

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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