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Author Topic:   The SEVEN "DAYS" WERE GEOLOGICAL ERAS
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 33 of 310 (682389)
12-01-2012 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
12-01-2012 7:30 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note it is the waters that get gathered together, not land.
Google the term Panthalassic Ocean which will clear this up for you
When all the water under heaven is gathered together into one place there can only be one continent around which that water collects:

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 38 of 310 (682399)
12-01-2012 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by NoNukes
12-01-2012 7:49 PM


This thread deals with the correspondence between your given Geological eras and the creation days specified in Genesis. I'm raising issues well inside of those bounds.
What was the issue, specifically?

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 41 of 310 (682432)
12-02-2012 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by NoNukes
12-01-2012 8:00 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
If you move the creation of the sun to day one, how is that the least bit helpful? Isn't geological era one still well before protons existed or galaxies were formed?
...move...?
Both Genesis and Science agree that the Big Bang expansion created the sun, stars, galaxies, and ended in the evening of the Chaotian Eon, with the coalescence of the hot rotating ring of rocks around our sun forming the Globe of the Earth.
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, (a spinning cloud of molten matter and gases), and void: (not valid as a sphere yet- i.e.; an accretion disk), and darkness: [choshek: obscurity] was upon the face (of the disk) of the deep: [tehowm: the deep primeval abyss of the thick ring].
And (the great Shechinah), the spirit, (the pan-en-theistic Natural Laws) of God moved upon the face: [paniym: presence] of the "waters" (i.e.; of these transitory things spinning counter clockwise around the Sun: [mayim: Hebrew])
This event marked the Cryptic morning of the Hadean eon:
But, before this Genesis reveals that there was no visible light initially.
For 400 million years the Cosmos had been in a Dark Age until the Force behind Reality said, figuratively speaking, "Let there be light."
Gen. 1:3 And God, (next, after the creation of the Heavens), said, Let there be light: and there was light, (which had been delayed by 400 million years after the Big Bang by a Cosmic Dark Age throughout all the universe).
Gen. 1:4 And (Father Nature, the Force behind the ever unfolding Reality), God, saw the light, that it was good: and (Father Nature, the Force behind the ever unfolding Reality), God, divided the light from the darkness (as the stars formed).
Gen. 1:5 And (Father Nature, the Force behind the ever unfolding Reality), God, called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 43 of 310 (682449)
12-02-2012 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by NoNukes
12-02-2012 12:02 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
So at least with this last post of yours we can agree that the eras on your Big Bang post do not agree with Genesis.
?
I do NOT agree that even one thing is Genesis differs with our acaemic and scientific knowledge.
You must realize that at the instant of the Big Bang, during the Planck Era, all matter which woukdbecome the satrs, sun, and Earth was created and expanding and evolving into the present Galaxies which formed 9 billion years before our own sun and earth devloped from that matter.
This whole duration was the Evening of the Formative Era and the Crptic morning of the Hadean eon, that point when the acretion disk around the sun coalesced into a sphere.
The Chaotian evening of the Formative/Cosmologic Era -
...the Cryptic morning of the Hadean Era/ = First Day
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 44 of 310 (682451)
12-02-2012 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Panda
12-02-2012 8:13 AM


Re: Selective learning
Then the source you are using has missed out several eras.
Your use of incomplete information means that any conclusions you make is wrong.
Hmmm,...
Maybe these scientist sum up the whole big Bang expansion differently than some few others, but if we read the details they give us concerning the various phases inside their seven catagories, they are complete and comprehensive.
Be more specific and criticize the diagram I found on gogle below.
What's missing in that synopsis?

Published by George Firth
August 13, 2009, Category: Philosophy of Science
A step by step guide to the birth of our Universe.
1) The Planck Era
No current theory of physics can describe what happened at this point in time, however we believe strongly that it was a singularity of pure energy at the start of time.
2) The Inflation Era
Part of the Universe expanded from billions of times smaller than a proton to something the size of a football field. This eras lifespan was a hundred billionth of a yoctosecond and was approximately 1,000 trillion trillion degrees centigrade.
3) The Quark Era
This period saw vast number of quark and anti quark (what is quark?) pairs forming from energy and then annihilating back to energy. Gluons and other particles also appeared. This eras lifespan was about 100 millionth of a yocto second and was approximately 10 billion billion degrees centigrade.
Time: It’s Relative and Does Not Even Exist
Close to the end of the quark era, the Electroweak force separated and the weak interaction, from then on, the forces of nature and physical laws were as they are now experienced. This era was about 1.1 microseconds and temperatures reached 1000 trillion degrees.
4) Hadron Era
Around the beginning of this era, quarks and antiquarks began combining to form particles called hadrons. These included baryons (protons and neutrons) anti baryons and mesons. This ear took 1 microsecond to complete an was approximately 10 trillion degrees.
5) Lepton Era
Leptons (elections, neutrinos and antiparticles) were very numerous, by the end of this era the electrons annihilated with positrons (anti elections). The lepton era took 1 millisecond and was approximately 1 billion centigrade, by this point in the Big bang the universe was 1000 billion kilometres in diameter.
6) Nucleosynthesis Era
Neutrons converged into protons as the Universe cooled, but when there was about one neutron for every seven protons, most remaining neutrons combined with protons to make helium neclei, each with two protons and two neutrons. This era was 1 second long and was about 10 billion centigrade. In the middle of the Nucleosynthesis Era the Universe stretched to 10 light years in diameter (94.6 trillion kilometres)
7) Opaque Era
During this lengthy era of 200 seconds the sea of matter particles were in a continual state of interaction with photons making the Universe foggy. Temperatures reached 100 million degrees.
At the end of the Opaque Era, many more free protons existed than helium neclei, or other atomic neclei. The scene was set for the first atoms to form. When they did about 9 hydrogen atoms were made for each helium atom. A few lithium a deuterium (heavy hydrogen) atoms also formed.
NOW, The Hadean Era = Matter Era
At the start of our present era, photons were free to travel through the Universe. Most electrons were bound to atoms until the first stars formed, reheating matter. The diameter of the Universe is currently 100 million light years and rising. (1 light year = 9.6 trillion kilometres)

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 45 of 310 (682454)
12-02-2012 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by NoNukes
12-01-2012 8:10 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
...gathered together unto one place...
On day two.
Again well before ordinary matter even existed. Yet in reality, earth is formed from elements that were created inside stars.
You aren't following this closely enough to understand.
Between the evening of the Chaotian Era and the first appearance of a Global Earth there were seven stages to the Big Bang expansion.
These seven stages are all during the first day.
The events of Pangea-Panthallasso occurred much later, during the Neo-archean evening and the Paleo-proterozoic morning of the Proterozoic Era or the third day.
This was exactly the SAME moment in time that the first Pangea-like event occurred, called Rodinia:
Neo-archean evening of the Archaean Era-
... and the Paleo-proterozoic morning of the Proterozoic Era = i.e.; The Third Day of Genesis:
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 47 of 310 (682460)
12-02-2012 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by NoNukes
12-02-2012 2:23 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
So explain the correspondence of Day 4 of Genesis to any Day four in your Geological Era
That is very constructive criticism.
Day four focuses on the idea that a Solar clock, even a moon calendar and Sidereal accounting for time had become necessary since like had previously appeared.
Correct academically and scientifically, Genesis had stated that the Plant Kingdom had appeared and was evolving on the previous "day," during the Eo-archean era and the early Paleo-proterozoic morning of the Proterozoic Era, i.e.; Third Day.
What Genesis 1:14 is telling us concerns the Circadian rhythms the life forms must utilize in their metabolic processes.
But the ficus of Solar time and the first recognition of Time as related to earth time apparently was also a literary technique to allow us to see these first seven "days" could not be 24 hour units.
It was a clue to the reader of this Age who can now choose to read genesis with a sense of truth in regard to science.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 50 of 310 (682475)
12-02-2012 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by jar
12-02-2012 6:38 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
Isn't Genesis 1:1 kinda forced? Is there any need to go beyond the first verse to dismiss the scientific accuracy of Genesis?
Yes, it is forced in the sense that I hope to show that as we compare science with Genesis we shall even see that seven (7) is the favored number of science as it is the Bible's.
For instance,... The second day:
Genesis 1:3
Gen. 1:6 And, (Father Nature, Reality), God, said, Let there be a firmament, (seven layers of atmosphere), in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the (evaporated) waters from the (seven collections of condensed) waters.
The Firmament above:
1) Tropo-sphere
2) Strato-sphere
3) meso-sphere
4) Thermo-sphere
5) Iono-sphere
6) Magneto-sphere
7) Exo-sphere
The Firmament below:
The firmament below:
1) ocean
2) inland seas
3) lakes
4) rivers
5) underground water
6) glaciers
7) atmospheric water vapor

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 58 of 310 (682486)
12-03-2012 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by NoNukes
12-02-2012 9:54 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
That still leaves him to explain what fixing the lesser lights in the firmament means. I've asked him twice to explain that.
I am calling that a day 4 problem, but I can see why you might insist that it is a day 1 problem. I prefer letting him have some rope.
1) You are unusually reasonable and open to a fair critical analysis of the ideas presented.
Constructive criticism is always useful in getting toi understand the issues and to be certain the idea is thoroughly understood before making decisions or giving into a personal bias for having had seen things quite differently until this was introduced just a few hours ago.
This suggests a high level of intellectual honesty regardless of whether in the final analysis one decides for or against the subject undr examination.
2) In regard to the fourth day, which was actually the Neo-proterozoic evening of the Proterozoic Era and the Cambrian morning of the Paleozoic Era...
Genesis uses six (6) verses to tell us about what took place.
That allots more space to this day than all the other descriptions of events during other days.
I suspect the reason was that this whole interjection into the story was intended to get or attention to this very matter, whether Genesis is talking about 24 days or eras.
We must admit that this idea would have been impossible to discuss before this Age since the truth is almost unbeoeievable.
yet, if the writers intended us to finally see this a scientifically correct, these six verses are key.
3) Let me write out the six verses with bracketed comments and explanations interjected in the context so we can analyze what I am saying:
Gen. 1:14 And God, (The First Cause), said, Let there be (Sidereal Time), lights in the firmament of the heaven, (for the reason) to divide the (12 hour) day from the (12 hour) night; and let them be for (the purpose of) signs, (astronomical, symbolic references), and for (the purpose to designate) times, (the four seasons), and for (the 24 hour period to be called) days, (the "day" of 24 hours as distinguished from the days of long Eras), and years (of 365 day):
Gen. 1:15 And let them be (time keepers) for (sources of) lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth (such that the Earth day might regulate the circadian rhythms of the new life forms which had just appeared): and it was so.
Gen. 1:16 And (Father Nature, the force behind the ever unfolding Reality), God, (with almighty authority) made, (i.e.; assigned these) two great lights (to be the time keepers); the greater light to rule (time during) the day, and the lesser light to rule (time during) the night:
(With almighty authority), he made the stars also (to keep Earth time as a Sidereal Clock).
Strong's Concordance
Transliteration:

`asah = made [H6213] =
made: [asah] = appointed, ordained, instituted
Gen. 1:17 And God, (Father Nature, Reality), set: [Hebrew: nathan = appointed, assigned, designated] them, (Sun, Moon, and Stars), in the firmament of the heaven (for the purpose of keeping Earth time by means that they were) to give light upon the earth,
nathan
verb
Set
1) to give, bestow, grant, permit, ascribed, employed, devote, consecrate, dedicate, pay wages, sell, exchange, lend, commit, entrust, give over, deliver up, yield produce, occasion, produce, requite to, report, mention, utter, stretch out, extend
2) to put, set, put on, put upon, set, appointed, assigned, designated
Gen. 1:18 And to rule (with authority) over the (cycle of the @12 hours) day and over the (cycle of the @12 hours) night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God, (Father Nature, the force behind the ever unfolding Reality), saw that it was good.

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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 59 of 310 (682487)
12-03-2012 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Panda
12-02-2012 11:33 PM


Re: Selective learning
These the seven Eras up until now which I see mentioned in the Link:
1) The Planck Era
2) The Inflation Era
3) The Quark Era
4) Hadron Era
5) Lepton Era
6) Nucleosynthesis Era
7) Opaque Era
NOW, The Hadean Era = Matter Era

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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 60 of 310 (682488)
12-03-2012 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
12-02-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
So the first verse says that the earth and the waters were created on day one
Actually, checking the meaning of the word "waters," I am interpreting Gen1:2 this way:
which, unlike your choice, would be academicaly and scientifically correct:
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, (a spinning cloud of molten matter and gases), and void: (not valid as a sphere yet- i.e.; an accretion disk), and darkness: [choshek: obscurity] was upon the face (of the disk) of the deep: [tehowm: the deep primeval abyss of the thick ring].
And (the great Shechinah), the spirit, (the pan-en-theistic Natural Laws) of God moved upon the face: [paniym: presence] of the "waters" (i.e.;Hebrew meaning: "of these transitory things" spinning counter clockwise around the Sun: [mayim: Hebrew])
NOTE:
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 65 of 310 (682498)
12-03-2012 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Eli
12-03-2012 3:07 AM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
Academicaly and scientifically correct, how?
Transitory things = piss.
Gen 1:2 tells us, first, that t earth is void of its spherical shape, hence we can reason that it is described as in the form of the accretion disk of rotating rocks which are like murky "waters" of hot magma.
This interpretation seems fair and supported by the facts.
Theistic Evolution Bible believers prefer to choose this way of understanding Gen 1:2 because it conforms with the truth.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 67 of 310 (682501)
12-03-2012 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Panda
12-03-2012 8:05 AM


Re: Selective learning
There are nine eras:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Separation of the Electroweak force
Close to the end of the quark era, the Electroweak force separated and the weak interaction, from then on, the forces of nature and physical laws were as they are now experienced. This era was about 1.1 microseconds and temperatures reached 1000 trillion degrees.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(I emphasised a part of the quote in case you decide to claim it is not an era.)
1) BBLE, QUIBBLE, QUIBBLE...
2) Here is the exact quote from the link:
The Quark Era
This period saw vast number of quark and anti quark pairs forming from energy and then annihilating back to energy. Gluons and other particles also appeared. This eras lifespan was about 100 millionth of a yocto second and was approximately 10 billion billion degrees centigrade.
Separation of the Electroweak force
Close to the end of the quark era, the Electroweak force separated and the weak interaction, from then on, the forces of nature and physical laws were as they are now experienced. This era was about 1.1 microseconds and temperatures reached 1000 trillion degrees.
Read more:
The link specifically says that the "Separation of the Electroweak force" takes place "near the end of the Quark Era."
It is in part of that Era, therefore.
The Matter Era is an eighth Era which this science writer counts, as did the other some graphic examples I posted. He describes this eighth somewhat idiosyncratically and differently from the others, but illustrates the science discipline's propensity to favor seven very much as does the bible.
... and eight is't bad anyway:
Ecclesiastes 11:2
Give a portion to seven, and also to eight; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 68 of 310 (682502)
12-03-2012 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by jar
12-03-2012 10:31 AM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
Sorry but a disk is still a form.
This quibbling over every minute point is like the sieve that the Pharisees used to examine what Jesus was saying, while they swallowed their own interpretations of the scriptures which were anti-science and even irrational.
Look at the diagram I posted above.
Can you NOT see that the form of what was to become a spherical global Earth started formless, as hot gases and as if a vague cloud of matter that was void of a geometric shape???

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 76 of 310 (682516)
12-03-2012 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Pressie
12-03-2012 3:15 AM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
For example, the word "void" certainly does not mean "not valid as a sphere yet- i.e.; an accretion disk" at all.
True.
In the Hebrew it means an undistinguishable ruin among other synonyms. (See Strong's Con)
The bracketed commentary uses that choice of word to understand Gen 1:2 as a rational explanation for the ongoing cosmic evolution.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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