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Author Topic:   Is God good?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 286 of 722 (683281)
12-09-2012 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by crashfrog
12-09-2012 11:45 AM


God is make believe.(so why cant He make ME believe?)
The bridges are intact and I've been other them and back. There's just nothing at the other side; God is make-believe.
OK, I'll agree that you are not unable to receive the truth. In fact, you dare God to convince you because
  • You see no way that anything you were ever taught is true(concerning Christianity)
  • Secretly you would love for God to exist yet He has not said or done anything for you that you can see...thus....no God.
  • 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 talks about those who believe the lie because they have not a love of the truth. Faith is convinced that Jesus is the truth, as am I. You, on the other hand, are a lover of truth....except to you, truth is knowledge.
    Some of us believe only things we can see, touch, taste, or understand. Others cling to hope in faith, the evidence of things unseen. I did not mean to insult you, by the way.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 285 by crashfrog, posted 12-09-2012 11:45 AM crashfrog has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 287 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 12:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 288 by crashfrog, posted 12-09-2012 1:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 292 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 4:51 PM Phat has replied

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 9489
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.9


    Message 287 of 722 (683287)
    12-09-2012 12:38 PM
    Reply to: Message 286 by Phat
    12-09-2012 11:55 AM


    Re: God is make believe.(so why cant He make ME believe?)
    Phat writes:
    OK, I'll agree that you are not unable to receive the truth. In fact, you dare God to convince you because
    You see no way that anything you were ever taught is true(concerning Christianity)
    Secretly you would love for God to exist yet He has not said or done anything for you that you can see...thus....no God.
    This isn't the way it works for most of us atheists.
    We start with the usual belief in the god of our parents then we have our road to Damascus moment and realise that it's all a load of nonsense and the emperor is stark buttock naked.
    Personally I had a faith in the Christian God as strong as anybodies until the age of about 14 then it suddenly occurred to me that it was all a total and complete lie. Now you explain to me why this god that you believe in would do that to me?
    He unsaved me, Hallelujah.

    Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 286 by Phat, posted 12-09-2012 11:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    crashfrog
    Member (Idle past 1467 days)
    Posts: 19762
    From: Silver Spring, MD
    Joined: 03-20-2003


    Message 288 of 722 (683290)
    12-09-2012 1:05 PM
    Reply to: Message 286 by Phat
    12-09-2012 11:55 AM


    Re: God is make believe.(so why cant He make ME believe?)
    You see no way that anything you were ever taught is true(concerning Christianity)
    What do you mean "no way"? The way for it to be true is by being true. It could be true; it's just not.
    Secretly you would love for God to exist yet He has not said or done anything for you that you can see...thus....no God.
    One, it's not a secret, and two, it's not just for me - I'm not selfish like that. It's anyone. God's never done anything for you, or for Faith. He's never done anything for anyone ever, not even once. And the way that's best explained is that there's no such thing as God.
    I'm not so selfish that I require God's hand in the world to work to my benefit. I just require that it work to someone's.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 286 by Phat, posted 12-09-2012 11:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    kofh2u
    Member (Idle past 3820 days)
    Posts: 1162
    From: phila., PA
    Joined: 04-05-2004


    Message 289 of 722 (683302)
    12-09-2012 2:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 280 by Tangle
    12-09-2012 11:12 AM


    Christianity in total is a minority belief - the majority of people on the planet believe something different to Christians.
    These are merely the twelve (12) different groups or "tribes" in the present Global Village which represent the 12 foundation walls for the coming New Jerusalem which encases the world because he comes who will explain what the Bible actually says, in spite everyone of these 12 groups think they know.
    Rev. 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious (livimn) stones. The first foundation was (Christianity) jasper; the second (Muslim), sapphire; the third, (Hindus), a chalcedony; the fourth, (non-religious), an emerald;
    Rev. 21:20 The fifth, (Jews), sardonyx; the sixth, (New Religious), sardius; the seventh, (Ethno-religious), chrysolite; the eighth, (Buddhists), beryl; the ninth, (the Chinese folk), a topaz; the tenth, (Sikhs), a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, (Others), a jacinth; the twelfth, (Atheists), an amethyst.
    3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
    4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
    5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 280 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 11:12 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 290 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 2:29 PM kofh2u has not replied
     Message 296 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 5:26 PM kofh2u has not replied

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 9489
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.9


    Message 290 of 722 (683304)
    12-09-2012 2:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 289 by kofh2u
    12-09-2012 2:19 PM


    kofh2u writes:
    These are merely the twelve (12) different groups or "tribes" in the present Global Village which represent the 12 foundation walls for the coming New Jerusalem which encases the world because he comes who will explain what the Bible actually says, in spite everyone of these 12 groups think they know.
    You did notice that one of those 12 tribes was called "other" didn't you? Thought not.
    I also love the idea of a tribe of 'atheists'. I wonder what the collective noun for atheists is?
    A murder, a confusion, a mess, a profanity, a nowse, a disparity, an annoyance, a burning....?
    Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

    Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 289 by kofh2u, posted 12-09-2012 2:19 PM kofh2u has not replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 291 of 722 (683318)
    12-09-2012 4:44 PM
    Reply to: Message 280 by Tangle
    12-09-2012 11:12 AM


    OK fine I thought you meant I was a minority Christian
    But I am a completely generic Protestant. We all believe in the same gospel of salvation despite other differences, and I consider us all part of the same Christian family. In my town I figure there are about forty "Christian" churches. I wouldn't have any problem attending about 32 of them.

    He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 280 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 11:12 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 295 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 5:12 PM Faith has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 292 of 722 (683319)
    12-09-2012 4:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 286 by Phat
    12-09-2012 11:55 AM


    Re: God is make believe
    Phat, as far as I've been able to tell you are being killed along with the rest of them. I haven't seen you ever say you believe that Christ died for your sins, which is THE gospel of salvation, and I have seen you discount much of the Bible and actually accept jar's calling God "She."

    He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 286 by Phat, posted 12-09-2012 11:55 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 336 by Phat, posted 12-10-2012 4:57 AM Faith has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 293 of 722 (683320)
    12-09-2012 4:55 PM
    Reply to: Message 280 by Tangle
    12-09-2012 11:12 AM


    How sad sad sad it is that the only true God is now classed among pagan religions as a "minority" belief, the true religion that made western civilization, and you're all so aggressively rejecting your own historical and cultural foundations, but far worse than any of that you're rejecting the only means to salvation.

    He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 280 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 11:12 AM Tangle has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 294 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2012 4:58 PM Faith has not replied
     Message 308 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2012 8:15 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9076
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 3.7


    Message 294 of 722 (683321)
    12-09-2012 4:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 293 by Faith
    12-09-2012 4:55 PM


    but far worse than any of that you're rejecting the only means to salvation.
    Not really. I have no need for salvation. I am quite fine with myself and my life. The idea of eternal life has no appeal to me.

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 293 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 4:55 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 9489
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.9


    Message 295 of 722 (683322)
    12-09-2012 5:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 291 by Faith
    12-09-2012 4:44 PM


    You are amazing, even for a creationist.
    Protestantism IS a minority belief even within Christianity.
    But then you believe in the absolute wackiest form of it - literal creationism, Noah, Floods, the whole bag of crabs - which puts you amongst a really tiny number of people.
    But that's not the bloody point. The point being made was that almost the entirity of the planet believes something different to you and most of them believe it as strongly as you do. But YOU know you're right, just like they do. So if there is only one true god and it's yours, how come everybody else doesn't know it? How come they have their own certainties? Why does where your'reborn matter more than any other factor in the belief game?

    Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 291 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 4:44 PM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 298 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 5:56 PM Tangle has not replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 296 of 722 (683323)
    12-09-2012 5:26 PM
    Reply to: Message 289 by kofh2u
    12-09-2012 2:19 PM


    These are merely the twelve (12) different groups or "tribes" in the present Global Village which represent the 12 foundation walls for the coming New Jerusalem which encases the world because he comes who will explain what the Bible actually says, in spite everyone of these 12 groups think they know.
    What IS your belief system anyway, Kofh? You include all the religions in one big lump together as part of the New Jerusalem? The New Jerusalem in the Bible represents those who have been saved by Christ and washed in the blood of the lamb. And who is it you seem to be expecting imminently who will explain the Bible? Are you aware that many Christians are expecting the final Antichrist soon? Sounds like that's who you have in mind as well.

    He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 289 by kofh2u, posted 12-09-2012 2:19 PM kofh2u has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 297 by jar, posted 12-09-2012 5:41 PM Faith has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 297 of 722 (683325)
    12-09-2012 5:41 PM
    Reply to: Message 296 by Faith
    12-09-2012 5:26 PM


    wish in one hand ...
    Are you aware that many Christians are expecting the final Antichrist soon?
    That's been true for over 2000 years now.
    Now on topic, Ganesha is definitely good, removing obstacles, assuring success, Lord of Letters and Learning.
    Edited by jar, : fix smilie

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 296 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 5:26 PM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 299 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 6:09 PM jar has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 298 of 722 (683326)
    12-09-2012 5:56 PM
    Reply to: Message 295 by Tangle
    12-09-2012 5:12 PM


    You are amazing, even for a creationist.
    Protestantism IS a minority belief even within Christianity.
    Not Found
    But then you believe in the absolute wackiest form of it - literal creationism, Noah, Floods, the whole bag of crabs - which puts you amongst a really tiny number of people.
    Oh not as small as you think. MOST Protestants (defined as those who believe in the gospel of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone through God's grace alone) believe this too but they don't get on message boards and argue for it.
    However, I don't reject those who believe in the gospel of salvation who also believe in some way of twisting Genesis to fit their idea of what science says. I think it's sad but I don't think they've missed salvation. Buz belonged to what orthodox Protestants regard as a cult and yet it seems to believe the true gospel so I regard him as my brother in the Lord. He also believed in a few extra millions of years to be found in Genesis, which I certainly cannot find myself. but it's the gospel that is the defining concept of Christianity.
    OK here's the Wikipedia list from your link.
    2.1 Catholicism - 1.2 billion
    2.2 Protestantism - 600—800 million
    2.3 Eastern Orthodoxy - 230 million
    2.4 Anglicanism - 85 million
    2.5 Oriental Orthodoxy - 82 million
    2.6 Restorationism - 45 million
    2.7 Unitarian Universalism - 0.6 million[153]
    2.8 Nestorianism - 0.6 million
    I reject Catholicism as an institution because of all its false teachings as defined by the Bible, just as all the Protestant Reformers did, who were all Catholics to start with but came to the conclusion through the Bible that the papacy is in fact the Antichrist and that the "church" is not Christian at all.
    NEVERTHELESS, there can be some saved Catholics who believe the same gospel I believe. I hope so anyway.
    Likewise I think there are saved Eastern Orthodox believers although that institution also teaches some false doctrine.
    A hundred years ago I wouldn't have had much trouble accepting Anglicanism as Christian but they've gone so liberal I don't know any more. Perhaps there are also still some saved Anglicans who believe the true gospel of salvation.
    Oriental Orthodoxy comprises some of the oldest Christian denominations and I have to suppose many of them still own the true gospel but I don't know enough about them to be sure.
    Restorationism is a false teaching but they nevertheless hold to the true gospel, and again, that's the defining element. ABE: OOPS, I thought this was a movement within Protestantism by the title, but I just read the entry and I see its a catchall for a bunch of false cults like Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses. Nope, not Christian. They have false ideas about Jesus Christ and they do not know the gospel of salvation.
    Unitarian Universalism rejects the Deity of Christ and the gospel of salvation so they are not Christian, they are a heresy.
    I think Nestorianism is too but although I read the description I'm not sure.
    Overall it looks to me like I consider a lot more on that list to be true Christians than you thought.
    But that's not the bloody point. The point being made was that almost the entirity of the planet believes something different to you and most of them believe it as strongly as you do. But YOU know you're right, just like they do.
    You are in the UK, are you part of the British heritage? If so it's very sad that you don't even have the most rudimentary understanding of your CULTURAL Christian heritage, let alone its true doctrine of salvation. Christianity came into the world along with versions of all those other religons and displaced all of them in the middle east and the west BECAUSE IT WAS RECOGNIZED TO BE THE TRUTH. Sad you think numbers mean anything.
    So if there is only one true god and it's yours, how come everybody else doesn't know it? How come they have their own certainties? Why does where your'reborn matter more than any other factor in the belief game?
    It doesn't. That's an illusion. There are a lot more Christians all over the world than you know anything about, most of them being viciously persecuted by those other religions in your pie. But the Bible TELLS us why the gospel is rejected, and you guys at EvC are unfortunately a great example of why. It's "foolishness" to you as the gospel writers said it would be to many, but to "us" it is the "power of God unto salvation."
    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
    Edited by Faith, : Add note about Restorationism.

    He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 295 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 5:12 PM Tangle has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 301 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2012 7:23 PM Faith has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 299 of 722 (683327)
    12-09-2012 6:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 297 by jar
    12-09-2012 5:41 PM


    Re: wish in one hand ...
    That's been true for over 2000 years now.
    Not really, but anyway, what may make the difference now is that so many NONChristian belief systems are expecting some great representative of their religion to appear soon and set things right, and Kofh's remark suggests he has a similar expectation, though I have no idea who exactly he thinks he's expecting.
    I'm sure you're aware that Ahmadinejad (sp?) is expecting the 12th Imam or Imam Mahdi to show up very soon for instance. Orthodox Jews are still expecting their Messiah, having rejected the true one. A huge statue of the Hindu-Buddhist "savior" Maitreya was erected somewhere in Asia not too long ago in expectation of his soon arrival, and there's this New Age guy Benjamin Creme who has been telling us HIS "Maitreya" is going to appear very soon, and his stuff was actually promoted by the UN not long ago but that information was removed from his website last time I looked. You'll also find murmurings among New Agers in general about such "entities" as the "Ascended Masters" touted by Madame Blavatsky and Alice Bailey being about to show up and set us all straight. Most of these religions have some way of explaining away the true Christ of the Bible, which ought to be a red flag. He's the only one they feel it necessary to explain away.
    Oh but you're right, we should get back to the topic.
    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

    He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 297 by jar, posted 12-09-2012 5:41 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 300 by jar, posted 12-09-2012 6:15 PM Faith has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    (1)
    Message 300 of 722 (683328)
    12-09-2012 6:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 299 by Faith
    12-09-2012 6:09 PM


    Re: wish in one hand ...
    Hey, there's money in selling doomsday theories. Always has been.

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 299 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 6:09 PM Faith has not replied

      
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