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Author Topic:   The SEVEN "DAYS" WERE GEOLOGICAL ERAS
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 310 (682588)
12-03-2012 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by kofh2u
12-03-2012 1:17 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
I fail to distinguish between what you call two uses of "Let there be.

Compare the meaning of "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." which you seem to say describes God creating light and...

"Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven" which you claim is not an act of creation of the sun, moon, or stars.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by kofh2u, posted 12-03-2012 1:17 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by kofh2u, posted 12-04-2012 8:08 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 310 (682624)
12-04-2012 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by kofh2u
12-04-2012 8:08 AM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
"Let there be light" marks a moment

If there was no visible light prior to "Let there be light" but there was such light afterwards, then visible light was created at the marked time. That's what create means.

Perhaps you did not explain so well why 'Let there be' does not usher in a new appearance.

I agree that the creation of light should be implicit in the creation of the universe. That is why I see a contradiction between the text and your interpretation of the text which says otherwise. The marked moment involving light is not temporally in the right time.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by kofh2u, posted 12-04-2012 8:08 AM kofh2u has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 142 of 310 (682728)
12-04-2012 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ICANT
12-04-2012 9:52 PM


Re: Re:Mnemonic learning
Why was Moses told by God to write in a book...

Let's be more specific. Moses was told to record the battle against the Amelekites. He may well have done so. But he was not told in Exodus 17:14 to write the Torah. And as we have discussed in the past at least a small portion of the Torah describes Moses death and burial. It seems unlikely that Moses wrote that portion.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ICANT, posted 12-04-2012 9:52 PM ICANT has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 310 (682767)
12-05-2012 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by kofh2u
12-05-2012 9:58 AM


Re: Nonsense
You dispute the credentals of the cast of paleontolgists who wrote The Last Human: A Guide to Twenty-Two Species of Extinct Humans.

I haven't read the book, but I highly doubt that the book includes the drawings in your post complete with the labelings of various evolutionary stages with Biblical names.

Let's assign the credit/blame to the person to whom it is due.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by kofh2u, posted 12-05-2012 9:58 AM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by kofh2u, posted 12-05-2012 12:16 PM NoNukes has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 230 of 310 (683183)
12-08-2012 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by kofh2u
12-08-2012 11:47 AM


Re: My Thread on the Science of Genesis
ANS:

"Chromosome 2 presents very strong evidence in favour of the common descent of humans and other apes."

People who believe in evolution believe in common descent, so it should be clear that Percy's question was not so simply answered.

The question is whether fusion alone would produce a new species such that the offspring with a fused gene is of a different species than his/her parent not having the fused gene.

That question is decidedly more difficult to answer.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by kofh2u, posted 12-08-2012 11:47 AM kofh2u has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Eli, posted 12-08-2012 3:06 PM NoNukes has seen this message

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 231 of 310 (683185)
12-08-2012 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by kofh2u
12-08-2012 11:42 AM


Re: My Thread on the Science of Genesis
You are openly bias against my point of view and seem eager to silence it simply because of that.

This thread was created for you to discuss your point of view. Expressing disagreement is not an attempt to silence you. Expressed disagreement is instead an opportunity for you to provide evidence and argument in support of your view. In other words, you are being invited to have further discussion.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by kofh2u, posted 12-08-2012 11:42 AM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by kofh2u, posted 12-08-2012 6:52 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 250 of 310 (683230)
12-08-2012 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by kofh2u
12-08-2012 6:45 PM


Re: My Thread on the Science of Genesis
It YOUR job to produce evidence that Genesis contradicts Science, not mine.

Actually, it is only necessary to show an inconsistency. For the purposes of this discussion, it is not necessary to show which position is actually correct. Further, we can restrict our investigation to your particular interpretation of Genesis.

Science does NOT refute that Sahefanthropus tchadensis was the oldest and first species in our common ascent, and that is DE FACTO comparable to the first Adam of the Bible story.

Comparable? Let's assume that Adam was a Sahefanthropus tchadensis. Then what is utterly incompatible with science is that any of Adam's immediate descendant's was of a different species than Adam. So science is incompatible at least with your interpretation of Genesis. Interestingly enough, I highly doubt that any fundamentalist would insist on any such thing. It is only your goofy attempt to make science fit with Genesis that creates this particular incompatibility.

Science does NOT refute a short list of 22 species in the ascent of man.

Science does not claim that there is linear sequence of 22 species between Sahefanthropus tchadensis and modern man. Accordingly we find a mismatch between your particular interpretation of Genesis which requires exactly 22 species in a short sequence of generations, and what science requires. Again, let's note that a fundy interpretation of Genesis would be that Adam and Noah were of the same species. That interpretation is not inconsistent with science which is simply silent on the existence of Adam and Noah.

Science does NOT refute that the first of our species was the source of the current three racial stocks that differentiated into the seven genetic races now here.

This is horse ca-ca. Plus Genesis says nothing about ethnic stocks or genetic races. There is no way to know what the genetic differences are between, for example, Noah's sons.

Science does NOT refute that a Two Kingdom System of life began with Plants on the third "duration" of the history of the earth.

Haven't you heard anything that has been said about this. You are not properly characterizing what Genesis says about this issue.

I've cherry picked a few inconsistencies. I have pointed out others in past discussions. For example, Genesis does not properly describe the time frame for the appearance of whales that is consistent with that described by science.

Pretending over and over that nobody has pointed these things out is not getting us anywhere.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by kofh2u, posted 12-08-2012 6:45 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by kofh2u, posted 12-09-2012 11:36 AM NoNukes has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 251 of 310 (683232)
12-08-2012 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by kofh2u
12-08-2012 6:52 PM


Re: My Thread on the Science of Genesis
The implication obviously was that he might otherwise censor me but for the fact he was in the converstaion.

That was what you inferred, incorrectly IMO. What Percy was actually telling you was that his request for evidence was not a moderator imperative, but was instead exactly the same as if any other participant had requested the same.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by kofh2u, posted 12-08-2012 6:52 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by kofh2u, posted 12-08-2012 8:46 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 256 of 310 (683244)
12-09-2012 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by kofh2u
12-08-2012 8:46 PM


Re: My Thread on the Science of Genesis
I was responding to a typical put down of believers, Crash, couldn't you leave it at that?

You attached this message as a follow up to me, but I'm not Crash, and I'm not an atheist.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by kofh2u, posted 12-08-2012 8:46 PM kofh2u has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 276 of 310 (683294)
12-09-2012 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by kofh2u
12-09-2012 1:03 PM


Re: There is no science in Genesis.
You must be a "half'N half Theistic Evolutionists, half believing evolution and half believing medieval nonsense made up by ancient men who could not read the Bible with our science to help them.

Interesting accusation. There are of course plenty of alternatives. One is that evolution is completely correct, and is the method employed by God to create the species on this planet, and that Genesis is not a literal account of God's work.

I understand the difficulties such a concept causes for fundamentalists who don't understand science and who demand a literal inerrant Bible or their faith is worthless. But none of the details of Creation are essential in any way to the Christian faith.

What is more difficult for some of us to understand, and "us" includes both Christians and Atheists, is your need to twist the Bible into an unrecognizable mess in order to get it to match up to science. Your purpose seems to be pretending that the mess is a literal interpretation of the Bible. In my view, you are the one trying to eat cake and still have it.

If I were to twist the Gospels the way you twist the Torah, I suspect the result would be a Christ that none of us would recognize.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by kofh2u, posted 12-09-2012 1:03 PM kofh2u has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 282 of 310 (683300)
12-09-2012 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by kofh2u
12-09-2012 1:26 PM


Re: There is no science in Genesis.
The Geology of the Earth:

1) Inner core
2) Outer core
3) Lower mantle
4) Upper mantle
5) Asthenosphere
6) Lithosphere/Continental Crust
7) Lithosphere/Oceanic Crust

Surely, this listing borders on the pathetic. The upper mantle includes the asthenosphere. The lithosphere includes the crust and the upper part of the mantle. That's why tradition listings include only five layers.

As promised, the seven varieties of Baskin Robbins Ice Cream

1. Traditional,
2. Nuts and Fruits,
3. Cookie,
4. Minty,
5. Candy,
6. Faux-Ice Cream (Sherbert, Custard, etc.)
7. Combo. (My personal favorite flavor)

I've had enough. Back at summary time.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by kofh2u, posted 12-09-2012 1:26 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by kofh2u, posted 12-09-2012 2:36 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 290 of 310 (683311)
12-09-2012 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by kofh2u
12-09-2012 2:36 PM


Re: Science does not refute Genesis
Get smart, research a little...

You are a real gem. Well here is some polish. If you are going to be condescending, it is best to be right first. Given that I am not a geologist, researching is exactly what I did before posting.

Let's look at how these layers are defined.

First Asthenosphere

"The upper layer of the earth's mantle, below the lithosphere, in which there is relatively low resistance to plastic flow and convection"

"A zone of the earth's mantle that lies beneath the lithosphere and consists of several hundred kilometers of deformable rock."

"The upper part of the Earth's mantle, extending from a depth of about 75 km (46.5 mi) to about 200 km (124 mi)."

That's right, the asthenospere is actually part of the upper mantle.

Now the definition of lithosphere...

"The lithosphere is the rigid outermost shell of a rocky planet. On Earth, it comprises the crust and the portion of the upper mantle that behaves elastically on time .."

"The lithosphere is the outer solid part of the earth, including the crust and upper mantle... The lithosphere is about 100 km thick, although its thickness is age "

So now perhaps you can see the problem with listing the lithosphere, the asthenosphere, and the upper mantle as three layers. Those three layers overlap. An easier to justify layer count is crust, upper mantle, lower mantle, outer core and inner core. There are other ways to be consistent but those other ways don't produce a seven count.

Similarly your listing of the outer "firmament" as seven layers is also fubar.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by kofh2u, posted 12-09-2012 2:36 PM kofh2u has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 303 of 310 (683417)
12-10-2012 12:37 PM


Summation.
A thread comprising a completely unsavory mix of bad science and bad bible study finally ends. Hopefully kofh2u feels that he has had a fair chance to express his ideas, because if this stuff starts showing up in other threads again, then this thread was a complete waste of time.

I could pick any of a number of single examples to discuss, but perhaps kofh2u's insistence that Bible geneology corresponds to the 22 extinct humans is as illustrative as any example. kofh2u grabs an idea or two from a book called "The Last Human: A Guide to Twenty-Two Species of Extinct Humans" and completely misses the point that the hominids described therein are not intended to be a lineage, but are intended to show a branching tree including both our grand parents and our cousins. He then goes on to equate this faux-lineage with a list of Adam's descendants.

Okay, kofh2u wants to believe that, then let him. But kofh2u seems to have absolutely no clue why others disagree. That inability to even consider the criticism is something I find bewildering.

Kofh2u wants the Bible to be literally correct. Okay. I get that. But literally correct in a bizarre way where the the ark is Noah's central nervous system. I don't get that.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


  
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