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Author Topic:   The SEVEN "DAYS" WERE GEOLOGICAL ERAS
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 270 of 310 (683285)
12-09-2012 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Percy
12-09-2012 8:11 AM


Re: My Thread on the Science of Genesis

Hi Kofh2u,
You have very odd ideas about how science works. Science isn't a matter of what hasn't been refuted. Science is a matter of what has been supported with evidence.

You claim there were 22 predecessor species to man and that science hasn't refuted that. Let us say, just for the sake of discussion, that this is all true.

But I could claim there were 23 predecessor species to man and that science hasn't refuted that either. It's just as true as your claim.

EXACTLY...
So why bash the Theistic Bible believer who chooses to see the 22 names in Genesis description of the roots in the ascent of man as corresponding with the paleontological evidence of science????


This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Percy, posted 12-09-2012 8:11 AM Percy has replied

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 272 of 310 (683288)
12-09-2012 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Panda
12-09-2012 12:07 PM


Re: There is no science in Genesis.

So - your own claim is denied by you.

It seems that everyone - including you - agrees that there is no connection between the Big Bang eras and the genesis 7 days....except you.

True...
My post concerning Gen 1:1 was about the seven (7) stages of the first "day" of the seven "days."

We all agree the science depictions are subjective short synoposis of the very complex details.

But, what I posted corresponds to what the scientists tell us about thr Big Bang thru to the end of the first day.

There is a one-to-one correspondence between the list of the seven stages that outline the Big Bang Expansion of that first day and how science depicts the complex unfolding of the Cosmic Evolution.

We are merely concerned with the correspondence between what Science SAYS and what God said:

1)

http://scienceray.com/.../step-by-step-guide-to-the-big-bang
Published by George Firth
August 13, 2009, Category: Philosophy of Science

1) The Planck Era
2) The Inflation Era
3) The Quark Era
4) Hadron Era
5) Lepton Era
6) Nucleosynthesis Era
7) Opaque Era

And 8), this present Era he calls "Now:"

2)

3)

4) Astronomy 162
Stars, Galaxies, and
Cosmology

1) Time ~ 1/100 Second
At this stage the temperature is about 100 billion Kelvin and the density is more than a billion times that of water. The Universe is expanding rapidly and is very hot; it consists of an undifferentiated soup of matter and radiation in thermal equilibrium. This temperature corresponds to an average energy of the particles of about 8.6
MeV (million electron-Volts). The electrons and positrons are in equilibrium with the photons, the neutrinos and antineutrinos are in equilibrium with the photons, antineutrinos are combining with protons to form positrons and neutrons, and neutrinos are combining with neutrons to form electrons and protons. At this stage the number of protons is about equal to the number of neutrons.

2) Time ~ 1/10 Second
Now the temperature has dropped to several times 10 billion Kelvin and the density is a little over 10 million times that of water as the Universe continues to expand. Because a free neutron is slightly less stable than a free proton, neutrons beta decay to protons plus electrons plus neutrinos with a half-life of approximately 17 minutes. Thus, the initial approximately equal balance between neutrons and protons begins to be tipped in favor of protons. By this time about 62% of the nucleons are protons and 38% are neutrons.
The free neutron is unstable, but neutrons in composite nuclei can be stable, so the decay of neutrons will continue until the simplest nucleus (deuterium, the mass-2 isotope of hydrogen) can form. But no composite nuclei can form yet because the temperature implies an average energy for particles in the gas of about 2.6 MeV, and deuterium has a binding energy of only 2.2 MeV and so cannot hold together at these temperatures. This barrier to production of composite nuclei, which allows the free neutrons to be steadily converted to protons, is called the deuterium bottleneck.

3) Time ~ 1 Second
The temperature has dropped to about 10 billion K as the Universe continues to expand, and the density is now down to about 400,000 times that of water. At this temperature the neutrinos cease to play a role in the continuing evolution, but the deuterium bottleneck still exists so there are no composite nuclei and the neutrons continue to beta decay to protons. At this stage the protons abundance is up to 76% and the neutron abundance has fallen to 24%.

4) Time ~ 13.8 Seconds
The temperature has now fallen to about 3 billion K. The average energy of the particles in the gas has fallen to about 0.25 MeV. This is too low for photons to produce electron-positron pairs so they fall out of thermal equilibrium and the free electrons begin to annihilate all the positrons to form photons. The deuterium bottleneck still keeps appreciable deuterium from forming and the neutrons continue to decay to protons. At this stage the abundance of neutrons has fallen to about 13% and the abundance of protons has risen to about 87%.

5) Time ~ 3 Min 45 Sec
Finally the temperature drops sufficiently low (about 1 billion K) that deuterium nuclei can hold together. The deuterium bottleneck is thus broken and a rapid sequence of nuclear reactions combines neutrons and protons to form deuterium, and the resulting deuterium with neutrons and protons to form the mass-4 isotope of helium (alpha particles). Thus, all remaining free neutrons are rapidly "cooked" into helium. Elements beyond helium-4 cannot be formed because of the peculiarity that there are no stable mass-5 or mass-8 isotopes in our Universe and the next steps in the most likely reactions to form heavier elements would form mass-5 or mass-8 isotopes.

6) Time ~ 35 Minutes
The temperature is now about 300 million K and the Universe consists of protons, the excess electrons that did not annihilate with the positrons, helium-4 (26% abundance by mass), photons, neutrinos, and antineutrinos. There are no atoms yet because the temperature is still too high for the protons and electrons to bind together.

7) Time ~ 700,000 years
The temperature has fallen to several thousand K, which is sufficiently low that electrons and protons can hold together to begin forming hydrogen atoms. Until this point, matter and radiation have been in thermal equilibrium, but now they decouple. As the free electrons are bound up in atoms the primary cross section leading to the scattering of photons (interaction with the free electrons) is removed and the Universe (which has been very opaque until this point) becomes transparent: light can now travel large distances before being absorbed.

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162

//////////

5)

6)

7)

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 273 of 310 (683289)
12-09-2012 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by jar
12-09-2012 12:23 PM


Re: There is no science in Genesis.

Again, you're just making shit up and misrepresenting what the Bible says.
There is no mention of father nature in Genesis 1.

Theistic Evolution understands that God utilizes the spirit of his Natural Laws such that Genesis corresponds with the science we now know.
This implies that God is that hand which unfolds the next frame of Reality to which all life must adapt or become extinct.

Inherent in the Theory of Evolyution is this concept of adaption to the changing environment, changes which "Father Nature" brings upon the living:

Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God, (almighty over all flesh) is not the God of the dead, but of (or over) the living.

You must be a "half'N half Theistic Evolutionists, half believing evolution and half believing medieval nonsense made up by ancient men who could not read the Bible with our science to help them.)

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 275 of 310 (683292)
12-09-2012 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by jar
12-09-2012 10:13 AM


Re: There is no science in Genesis.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

YOU offer no explanation for this rather confusing set of details about the second "day," but it seems clear enough when we examine the Hadean Era and the Histroy o the Earth as these verse would correspond scientifically in the unfolding evolution:

2Pe 3:5
For this they, (these science-literati), willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God, (Truth), the heavens (of the Universe) were of old, (since the Big Bang beginning), and the (seven-layered composition of the) earth standing out of the (seven bodies of) water (and above, a firmament of seven-layers of atmosphere), and in the (seven collections of) water, (a firmament below):

The Geology of the Earth:

1) Inner core
2) Outer core
3) Lower mantle
4) Upper mantle
5) Asthenosphere
6) Lithosphere/Continental Crust
7) Lithosphere/Oceanic Crust

The Firmament above.
1) Tropo-sphere
2) Strato-sphere
3) meso-sphere
4) Thermo-sphere
5) Iono-sphere
6) Magneto-sphere
7) Exo-sphere

The firmament below:
1) ocean
2) inland seas
3) lakes
4) rivers
5) underground water
6) glaciers
7) atmospheric water vapor

Gen. 1:7 And (Father Nature, Reality), God, made the firmament (of the atmosphere), and divided the (condensed) waters which were under the firmament from the (evaporated) waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gen. 1:8 And God, (Father Nature, the almighty Force behind the ever unfolding Reality), called the firmament Heaven.

And the Early Imbrian evening of the Hadean Era -

… and the Eoarchean morning of the Archaean Era was the Second Day


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 278 of 310 (683296)
12-09-2012 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by jar
12-09-2012 1:11 PM


Re: There is no science in Genesis.

1) You're still just making shit up and quote mining.

2) There is no evidence there is any Father Nature.

1) Of course the explanations of scripture by Theistic Evolution insights makes up the commentary but with the purpose of explaining how Genesis CORRESPONDS directly with the science.

Isn't that what every preacher does and how every one of the seven different expanations of the churches make up their imterpretations???

2) Theistic Evolutionists see God as the father who created Nature, or that web of natural laws which operate in the Cosmos as the material Universe unfolds in accord with Genesis 1.

But when theostic evolutionists read that Christ was The Truth, it is merely logic that His father must be The Reality which corresponds directly, one-to-one, with what is true and real.

The ever changing Reality that fathers the Truth that will have unfolded explains this relationship of Trinity between the father, son, and the spirit of Truth available to us all:

TRINITY:
Our (1) Lord is Truth, in whose (2) Spirit of mind we must commit our lives, in order to face (3) Father Nature, the Almighty Reality, within which we all exist.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 280 of 310 (683298)
12-09-2012 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by jar
12-09-2012 1:38 PM


Re: There is no science in Genesis.

1) There is no evidence that there is a Father Nature....

2) ... and there is no mention of Father Nature or atmosphere or condensed or evaporated in Genesis 1.

Put your thinking cap on Mr Jar....

LOGICAL SYLLOGISM:

The Major Premise is based upon Jesus saying "I am the Truth: clearly the personification of that ideal.

The minor premise is that Truth is the image of God, and…

The conclusion is that God must be the Reality which unfolds and gives birth to Truth.

//////
God described in Scripture = Father Nature/Reality since the Son of God = Truth

/////

LOGICAL SYLLOGISM:

A) Jesus is Truth, (personified).
B) Truth must correspond, congruently, to Reality.
C) Reality is congruent to Truth as Jesus is congruent to God.

2) I am demonstrating that Science ALSO has the favored numbers of 7 and 12 working to explain the Forces of Father Nature.

The references to these seven (7) science facts wherein seven appear over and again in Science corrresponds to the INORDINATE use of seven (7) and twelve (12) in Genesis.


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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 284 of 310 (683303)
12-09-2012 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Eli
12-09-2012 2:14 PM


Re: My Thread on the Science of Genesis
Bacteria plants was the first life:


This message is a reply to:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 285 of 310 (683305)
12-09-2012 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by NoNukes
12-09-2012 2:09 PM


Science does not refute Genesis
The Geology of the Earth:
1) Inner core
2) Outer core
3) Lower mantle
4) Upper mantle
5) Asthenosphere
6) Lithosphere/Continental Crust
7) Lithosphere/Oceanic Crust

Surely, this listing borders on the TRUTRH.

The upper mantle is actually covered with the important lubericant of the asthenosphere.

The lithosphere includes the crust of dry land and the basin under the Oceans.

That's why the factual listings include seven layers.

?

Get smart, research a little....


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 286 of 310 (683306)
12-09-2012 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by jar
12-09-2012 1:56 PM


Re: There is no science in Genesis.
Jesus has everything to do with Genesis 1:1.

Gen 1:1
In the beginning was the Word,

John1:1
In the beginning was the Word, (i.e.; Truth: [John 14:6]), and the Word, (Truth, itself), was (synonymous) with God, (i.e.; Reality), and the Word, (Truth: [John 14:6]), was (indistinguishable from Reality), God, (the almighty for all men).

2 "He," (Truth, the symbolic Word to come: [Jud 1:3]) was with God, (i.e.; the ever unfolding Reality), in the beginning, (that is, the initial unfolding of material Reality in what was the actiual physical Creation).

Jn 1:3 ALL (real) THINGS, (phenomenally, i.e.; mentally), came into existence, (for man), through him, (i.e.; this concept of Truth), and apart from him, (this ideal of Truth), not even ONE (real) thing came into (actual) existence (for men).


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 297 of 310 (683408)
12-10-2012 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by New Cat's Eye
12-10-2012 10:35 AM


Re: My Thread on the Science of Genesis
I suppose you atheists and denominational Christians think god didn't use the Literary Arts to include hidden meaning into the text that the authors themselves, were possibly unaware of.

1) Thoughtless Protestants forget that they brought down the Roman Catholic Church because THEY re-interpreted the teachings and interpretations which opposed scientific facts. It was the Pope's opposition to the Truth as it became clear through Science that cause the whole History of the Reformation.

2) Secret messages are clearly secret because the people could not handle the Truth before this Age, the End Times, when knowledge abounds and people run to and fro in a small Global Village of the highly informed and educated.

Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels, to understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

3) Even today, there is foolishness in saying science facts are wrong and YECs and Creationism is right while one CLAIMS to worship Christ, "The Truth and the way to light into the world."

4) A comprehensive reading of the Bible explains that this is a closed book, not so much a secret as unfathomable before now:

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

5) Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold,... (the golden spiritual insights of the irrepressible idea of psychic Consciousness emerging from scripture) ... tried in the fire... (of time),... that thou mayest be rich... (in continued church leadership); and (re-interpret upon) white (yet unwritten, new pages), raiment,... (of revised books of your evermore obvious misinterpretations), ...that thou mayest be clothed... (and protected in thine thinking with secularly acceptable scriptural confirmations), ...and that the shame... (as visited in Geocentricism does not reoccur concerning magical Creationism, impossible literal world-wide floods, genealogies of individuals who lived inordinately long personal life times, Sun and Moon and Stars absent from the Heavens while light shines through the Cosmos, etc) ...of thy nakedness... (of your unsupportable intuitive irrationalities) ...do not appear... (and confront you as happened before The Reformation); ...and anoint thine eyes...(awaken!)... with (the) eyesalve... (of reality!), ...that thou mayest see... (socio-psychologically).


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 298 of 310 (683411)
12-10-2012 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Percy
12-09-2012 4:13 PM


Re: My Thread on the Science of Genesis
Scientists have listed "the 22 now extinct humans" that they have been able to dig up and connect together in a line of ascent to modern man.

This compares with what Genesis already states in the stone of scripture and CORRESPONDS one-to-one with both disciplines.

Hence, again and again, Science does not refute Genesis.

Why is it people like Percy just miss this point?

I again post the claim of the thread, which is NOT that science is correct nor that Genesis is correct, but that SCIENCE DOES NOT REFUTE GENESIS:

Science does NOT refute that Sahefanthropus tchadensis was the oldest and first species in our common ascent, and that is DE FACTO comparable to the first Adam of the Bible story.

Science does NOT refute a short list of 22 species in the ascent of man.

Science does NOT refute that seven durations of time are marked with the events of the History of the Earth.

Science does NOT refute that the first of our species was the source of the current three racial stocks that differentiated into the seven genetic races now here.

Science does NOT refute that there was an In the beginning they call the Big Bang.

Science does NOT refute that a Cosmic Dark Age existed before light transversed the universe.

Science does NOT refute that Rodinia/Pangaea was an event when "all the waters, (plural) had been gathered together into one place."

Science does NOT refute that a Two Kingdom System of life began with Plants on the third "duration" of the history of the earth.

Science does NOT refute that the long 4th duration incubated the plant life while the Sun energy transformed the atmosphere into enough Oxygen to allow animal life to appear.

Science does NOT refute that the first man appeared in the Cenozoic 6th "day."

Science does NOT refute 22 members in the ascent tot modern man.

Science does NOT refute that that different kinds of mankind hybridized with each other as an event =in the ascent of modern man.

Science does NOT refute that Modern man initially was rooted in three racial stocks.

Science does NOT refute Genesis.
WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE THAT IS DOES?


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 301 of 310 (683415)
12-10-2012 12:15 PM


SEVEN "FINGERS"
And if you don't count your thumbs, then you have 8 fingers, which is pretty much seven, which demonstrates that science and the bible say the exact same thing when you use the correct reading comprehension.
7 candlesticks in hand=7 fingers.

But the Jewish Priests did not count seven the same way we might think.

"The Hand Blessing" which is performed in the synagogues today still shows the ancient way they represented 7 on their hands, those priests from the days of Moses called the Cohans.

Spock explained that was where he stole the idea from, the synagogue and the tomb stones:

You may have seen this same spread of th hand in Jewish cemeteries :

This is all very important to researching of scripture, too.
That is why Jesus returns in the end days with the seven stars or angels in his hand:

Rev. 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: [Rev 2:1], (the sevenfold spirit of the psyche: Id, Libido, Ego, Anima, Self, Harmony, Superego: [Gen. 28:12-13]): and out of his mouth went a two-edged sword (cutting both secular and theological understandings): and his countenance, (this Collective Unconscious mind that reigns over all mankind), was as the sun (of rationality) shineth in his strength (of factual, experiential, previously accumulated, and even secular confirmed knowledge: [Dan 12:3-4]).

1) Id = Lucifer
2) Libido = Satan
3) Ego = Mammon
4) Anima = Devil
5) Self = Beelzebub
6) Superego = False Prophet
7) Harmony = False shepherd
8) Conscience = Good Shepherd

The SEVEN CANDLES YOU MENTIONED ARE RELATED TO THESE HANDS AND THE EVIL SPIRITS:


  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 302 of 310 (683416)
12-10-2012 12:26 PM


THE VALID TWO KINGDOM TAXONOMY SYSTEM
Genesis uses the Two Kingdom System because it applies when the text is concerned with only Plants or Animals:

As explained by science, asll six systems are stillused where appropriate and useful, and ONAE of them is actually perfect or necessarily superior, dependin only upon yhe applications:

(See Yellow underlining)


  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 304 of 310 (683420)
12-10-2012 1:06 PM


A general reply to those people whdo not understand that the fusion of 2 chromosomes in an Ape mother was an Act-of-God by his chemistry inside the womb which created out of the Atomic Gust of earth a new species He called the "Adams."

The fusing is not to be confused with"heterozygous parents."

Heterozygous means that there are different alleles. So for example, the trait for tallness. If T is the dominant gene for tallness and t is the recessive gene for shortness, then a heterozygous parent would be Tt (tt or TT is homozygous, meaning same alleles).

As cited in these references on heterozygous parents, the comments are irrelevent to fusing and evidence of common deascent FROM apes:
Caroline Mackie Ogilvie and Paul N Scriven (December 2002). "Meiotic outcomes in reciprocal translocation carriers ascertained in 3-day human embryos". European Journal of Human Genetics (European Society of Human Genetics)

M. Oliver-Bonet; J. Navarro1, M. Carrera, J. Egozcue, J. Benet (October 2002). "Aneuploid and unbalanced sperm in two translocation carriers: evaluation of the genetic risk". Molecular Human Reproduction (Oxford University Press for the European Society for Human Reproduction and Embryology)

Mitelman, F; Johansson, B; Mertens, F (2007). "The impact of translocations and gene fusions on cancer causation". Nature reviews. Cancer

Homozygosity for a Robertsonian translocation (13q14q) in three offspring of heterozygous parents.

NOTE:

Gen 5:2 says god called them, the man and his wife, the "Adamites,"... i.e.; a species:

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he THEM; and blessed THEM, and called\[B\] THEIR name Adam, /\[B\] (a species), in the day when THEY were created.

http://kofh2u.tripod.com/id31.html

Science does not refute this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_(human)

"Chromosome 2 presents very strong evidence in favour of the common descent of humans and other apes. "

At each end of a chromosome we have a Telomere.
The purpose of the telomere in a chromosome is to prevent deterioration of the important bits of the chromosome from the end.

Chimpanzees and Humans have extremely similar DNA to humans.
But Chimpanzees have one more chromosome than Humans do, (24 pairs), and if Humans and Chimpanzees are genetically related (sharing a common ancestor), this extra chromosome had to go somewhere.
Evolutionary Biologists might predict that two chromosomes fused into one.
But they would need hard evidence to use that hypothesis as more argument for evolution in general, and for a good enough reason to make such a claim.
As it turns out Chromosome number 2 in Humans was once two different chromosomes that were fused together.
Additionally, the evidence is that an extra large Telomere appears in the middle of the #2 chromosome, as well as an extra Centromere, as depicted in the illustration above.


  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3055 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 305 of 310 (683421)
12-10-2012 1:12 PM


The Summation, is that opinions and bias for atheism, bible bashing, or a personal preference for some nonsense, metaphysical, ancient medieval rooted teachings denies the Genesis is scientifically and academically correct.

The foolish church people who hold to such preference for discrediting the Bible will watch the next generations leave their organizations and form new Theistic Evolution based Churches in their stead:

Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold,... (the golden spiritual insights of the irrepressible idea of psychic Consciousness emerging from scripture) ... tried in the fire... (of time),... that thou mayest be rich... (in continued church leadership); and (re-interpret upon) white (yet unwritten, new pages), raiment,... (of revised books of your evermore obvious misinterpretations), ...that thou mayest be clothed... (and protected in thine thinking with secularly acceptable scriptural confirmations), ...and that the shame... (as visited in Geocentricism does not reoccur concerning magical Creationism, impossible literal world-wide floods, genealogies of individuals who lived inordinately long personal life times, Sun and Moon and Stars absent from the Heavens while light shines through the Cosmos, etc) ...of thy nakedness... (of your unsupportable intuitive irrationalities) ...do not appear... (and confront you as happened before The Reformation); ...and anoint thine eyes...(awaken!)... with (the) eyesalve... (of reality!), ...that thou mayest see... (socio-psychologically).

Bill Maher will push them there, too.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


  
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