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Author Topic:   Is God good?
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 406 of 722 (683575)
12-11-2012 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 405 by Faith
12-11-2012 7:11 PM


Re: THE Church
The Roman Catholic Church is one of the Chapters of Club Christian.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 7:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 8:45 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 407 of 722 (683577)
12-11-2012 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 406 by jar
12-11-2012 7:19 PM


Re: THE Church
The Roman Catholic Church is one of the Chapters of Club Christian.
Not according to Luther, or any of the other Reformers or just about any believer since then for that matter (I say "just about" because there may be some who are true believers who are deceived on this point, especially these days). Luther exerted himself to great lengths to denounce the RCC as far from anything remotely Christian, calling the papacy the work of the devil for instance.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by jar, posted 12-11-2012 7:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by jar, posted 12-11-2012 8:46 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 408 of 722 (683578)
12-11-2012 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by Faith
12-11-2012 8:45 PM


Re: THE Church
Aw, too bad. Jesus said it is The Church.
Luther loses once again.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 8:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 8:49 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 409 of 722 (683579)
12-11-2012 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by jar
12-11-2012 8:46 PM


Re: THE Church
Jesus denounced the false church which didn't yet exist though its beginnings can be seen here and there in the NT, but clearly emerged a few centuries later as the Great Harlot RCC. It teaches nothing remotely Christian, just as you don't.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by jar, posted 12-11-2012 8:46 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by jar, posted 12-11-2012 8:58 PM Faith has replied
 Message 414 by Theodoric, posted 12-11-2012 10:04 PM Faith has replied
 Message 469 by jaywill, posted 12-14-2012 11:28 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 410 of 722 (683580)
12-11-2012 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Faith
12-11-2012 8:49 PM


Re: THE Church
So YOU say.
But Jesus said the Peter was the rock on which the THE Church would be built. If Luther said differently he needs to take that up with Jesus.
Not My Problem.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 8:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 9:17 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 411 of 722 (683582)
12-11-2012 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by jar
12-11-2012 8:58 PM


Re: THE Church
You are sure no Protestant.
Jesus did not say PETER is the rock, He said that Peter's TESTIMONY BY THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST is the rock. All who believe that are founded on the rock and part of the true Church.
Not what I say, what ALL true believers say.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by jar, posted 12-11-2012 8:58 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by jar, posted 12-11-2012 9:28 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 412 of 722 (683584)
12-11-2012 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Faith
12-11-2012 9:17 PM


Re: THE Church
I am a Protestant, get used to it.
Matthew writes:
Matt.16:18-19: "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
I actually have read the Bible, Faith.
And it STILL has nothing to do with the topic but it does come just a few chapters before Jesus admits he is neither good or perfect.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 9:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 9:59 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 413 of 722 (683586)
12-11-2012 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by jar
12-11-2012 9:28 PM


Re: THE Church
You may have "read" the Bible but you certainly have not understood it but have "wrested it to your own destruction" as Peter tells us some do:
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 2Pe 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.
JF&B Commentary at Blue Letter Bible on Matthew 16:18
... Simon-Barjona--or, "son of Jona" ( Jhn 1:42 ), or "Jonas" ( Jhn 21:15 ). This name, denoting his humble fleshly extraction, seems to have been purposely here mentioned, to contrast the more vividly with the spiritual elevation to which divine illumination had raised him.
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee--"This is not the fruit of human teaching."
... I will build my Church--not on the man Simon-Barjona; but on him as the heavenly-taught confessor of a faith. "My Church," says our Lord, calling the Church His OWN; a magnificent expression regarding Himself, remarks BENGEL--nowhere else occurring in the Gospel.
...19. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven--the kingdom of God about to be set up on earth
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven--Whatever this mean, it was soon expressly extended to all the apostles ( Mat 18:18 ); so that the claim of supreme authority in the Church, made for Peter by the Church of Rome, and then arrogated to themselves by the popes as the legitimate successors of St. Peter, is baseless and impudent. As first in confessing Christ, Peter got this commission before the rest; and with these "keys," on the day of Pentecost, he first "opened the door of faith" to the Jews, and then, in the person of Cornelius, he was honored to do the same to the Gentiles. Hence, in the lists of the apostles, Peter is always first named. See on JF & B for Mt 18:18. One thing is clear, that not in all the New Testament is there the vestige of any authority either claimed or exercised by Peter, or conceded to him, above the rest of the apostles--a thing conclusive against the Romish claims in behalf of that apostle.
The following can be found at Blue Letter Bible in the Commentaries on Matthew 16, J.C. Ryle on the nature of the true Church:
By the Late Bishop Ryle
Do you belong to the one true Church; to the Church outside of which there is no salvation? I do not ask where you go on Sunday; I only ask, "Do you belong to the one true Church?"
Where is this one true Church? What is this one true Church like? What are the marks by which this one true Church may be known? You may well ask such questions. Give me your attention, and I will provide you with some answers.
The one true Church is composed of all believers in the Lord Jesus. It is made up of all God's electof all converted men and women of all true Christians. In whomsoever we can discern the election of God the Father, the sprinkling of the blood of God the Son, the sanctifying work of God the Spirit, in that person we see a member of Christ's true Church.
It is a Church of which all the members have the same marks. They are all born of the Spirit; they all possess "repentance towards God, faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ," and holiness of life and conversation. They all hate sin, and they all love Christ. They worship differently and after various fashions; some worship with a form of prayer, and some with none; some worship kneeling, and some standing; but they all worship with one heart. They are all led by one Spirit; they all build upon one foundation; they all draw their religion from one single Bookthat is the Bible. They are all joined to one great centerthat is Jesus Christ. They all even now can say with one heart, "Hallelujah"; and they can all respond with one heart and voice, "Amen and Amen."
It is a Church which is dependent upon no ministers upon earth, however much it values those who preach the Gospel to its members. The life of its members does not hang upon church membership, and baptism, and the Lord's Supperalthough they highly value these things, when they are to be had. But it has only one great Head one Shepherd, one chief Bishopand that is Jesus Christ. He alone, by His Spirit, admits the members of this Church, though ministers may show the door. Till He opens the door no man on earth can open itneither bishops, nor presbyters, nor convocations, nor synods. Once let a man repent and believe the Gospel, and that moment he becomes a member of this Church. Like the penitent thief, he may have no opportunity of being baptized; but he has that which is far better than any water-baptismthe baptism of the Spirit. He may not be able to receive the bread and wine in the Lord's Supper; but he eats Christ's body and drinks Christ's blood by faith every day he lives, and no minister on earth can prevent him. He may be excommunicated by ordained men, and cut off from the outward ordinances of the professing Church; but all the ordained men in the world cannot shut him out of the true Church.
It is a Church whose existence does not depend on forms, ceremonies, cathedrals, churches, chapels, pulpits, fonts, vestments, organs, endowments, money, kings, governments, magistrates, or any act of favor whatsoever from the hand of man. It has often lived on and continued when all these things have been taken from it; it has often been driven into the wilderness or into dens and caves of the earth, by those who ought to have been its friends. Its existence depends on nothing but the presence of Christ and His Spirit; and they being ever with it, the Church cannot die.
This is the Church to which the Scriptural, titles of present honor and privilege, and the promises of future glory, especially belong; this is the body of Christ; this is the flock of Christ; this is the household of faith and the family of God; this is God's building, God's foundation, and the temple of the Holy Ghost. This is the Church of the first-born, whose names fire written in heaven; this is the royal priesthood, the chosen generation, the peculiar people, the purchased possession, the habitation of God, the light of the world; the salt and the wheat of the earth; this is the "Holy Catholic Church" of the Apostle's Creed; this is the "One Catholic and Apostolic Church" of the Nicene Creed; this is that Church to which the Lord Jesus promises, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it", and to which He says, "I am with you always, even unto the end of the world" Matthew 16:18; 28:20.
This is the only Church which possesses true unity. Its members are entirely agreed on all the weightier matters of religion, for they are all taught by one Spirit. About God, and Christ, and the Spirit, and sin, and their own hearts, and faith, and repentance, and necessity of holiness, and the value of the Bible, and the importance of prayer, and the resurrection, and judgment to comeabout all these points they are of one mind. Take three or four of them, strangers to one another, from the remotest corners of the earth; examine them separately on these points; you will find them all of one judgment.
This is the only Church which possesses true sanctity. Its members are all holy. They are not merely holy by profession, holy in name, and holy in the judgment of charity; they are all holy in act, and deed, and reality, and life, and truth. They are all more or less conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. No unholy man belongs to this Church.
This is the only Church which is truly catholic. It is not the Church of any one nation or people; its members are to be found in every part of the world where the Gospel is received and believed. It is not confined within the limits of any one country, or pent up within the pale of any particular forms or outward government. In it there is no difference between Jew and Greek, black man and white, Episcopalian and Presbyterianbut faith in Christ is all. Its members will be gathered from north, and south, and east, and west, in the last day, and will be of every name and tonguebut all one in Jesus Christ.
This is the only Church which is truly apostolic. It is built on the foundation laid by the Apostles, and holds the doctrines which they preached. The two grand objects at which its members aim are apostolic faith and apostolic practice; and they consider the man who talks of following the Apostles without possessing these two things to be no better than sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal.
This is the only Church which is certain to endure unto the end. Nothing can altogether overthrow and destroy it. Its members may be persecuted, oppressed, imprisoned, beaten, beheaded, burned; but the true Church is never altogether extinguished; it rises again from its afflictions; it lives on through fire and water. The Pharaohs, the Herods, the Neros, the bloody Marys, have labored in vain to put down this Church; they slay their thousands, and then pass away and go to their own place. The true Church outlives them all and sees them buried each in his turn. It is an anvil that has broken many a hammer in this world, and will break many a hammer still; it is a bush which, often burning, yet is not consumed.
This is the Church which does the work of Christ upon earth. Its members are a little flock, and few in number, compared with the children of the world; one or two here, and two or three there. But these are they who shake the universe; these are they who change the fortunes of kingdoms by their prayers; these are they who are the active workers for spreading the knowledge of pure religion and undefiled; these are the life-blood of a country, the shield, the defense, the stay and the support of any nation to which they belong.
This is the Church which shall be truly glorious at the end. When all earthly glory is passed away then shall this Church be presented without spot before God the Father's throne. Thrones, principalities, and powers upon earth shall come to nothing; but the Church of the first-born shall shine as the stars at the last, and be presented With joy before the Father's throne, in the day of Christ's appearing. When the Lord's jewels are made up, and the manifestation of the sons of God takes place, one Church only will be named, and that is the Church of the elect.
Reader, this is the true Church to which a man must belong, if he would be saved. Till you belong to this, you are nothing better than a lost soul. You may have countless outward privileges; you may enjoy great light, and knowledgebut if you do not belong to the body of Christ, your light, and knowledge, and privileges, will not save your soul. Men fancy if they join this church or that church, and become communicants, and go through certain forms, that all must be right with their souls. All were not Israel who were called Israel, and all are not members of Christ's body who profess themselves Christians. Take notice, you may be a staunch Episcopalian, or Presbyterian, or Independent, or Baptist, or Wesleyan, or Plymouth Brotherand yet not be long to the true Church. And if you do not, it will be better at last if you had never been born.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by jar, posted 12-11-2012 9:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by jar, posted 12-11-2012 10:08 PM Faith has replied
 Message 427 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-12-2012 2:03 PM Faith has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 414 of 722 (683588)
12-11-2012 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Faith
12-11-2012 8:49 PM


Re: THE Church
Jesus denounced the false church which didn't yet exist
LOL
I guess this just says it all doesn't it

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 8:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 11:32 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 415 of 722 (683589)
12-11-2012 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by Faith
12-11-2012 9:59 PM


Re: THE Church
Commentaries are not the Bible.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 9:59 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 11:29 PM jar has replied
 Message 423 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-12-2012 10:23 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 416 of 722 (683591)
12-11-2012 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by jar
12-11-2012 10:08 PM


Re: THE Church
Certainly commentaries are not the Bible, har har har de har, they are interpretation of the Bible, in this case quite standard PROTESTANT interpretation, and as a matter of fact all you are giving in your posts is interpretation too, you know,OPINION, about the same scripture as they are writing about, opinion which is oddly Roman Catholic for someone who calls himself a Protestant. But you do seem to major in calling black white and white black -- or green or orange or whatever. Har de har har har.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by jar, posted 12-11-2012 10:08 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by jar, posted 12-12-2012 8:06 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 417 of 722 (683592)
12-11-2012 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Theodoric
12-11-2012 10:04 PM


Re: THE Church
Sigh. He was warning about the false church which was going to come and "deceive many," but of course you don't believe in prophecy so you laugh at what you do not know.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Theodoric, posted 12-11-2012 10:04 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 418 of 722 (683601)
12-12-2012 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by jaywill
12-07-2012 1:28 PM


Can a deity be classified or categorized using human standards? If it can then it is very much okay to call Yahweh the biggest monster ever for retorting to violence in each and every adversity that has come along. The Biblical fludde or the fate of Amalechians are prime examples.
If on the other hand the actions of such deity are judged on deity-standard then how could any of us humans say pretty much anything.
I am otally of the opinion that the xian God is very evil and incompetent to boot. I fail to see anything worth admiring or pursuing in "Him".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by jaywill, posted 12-07-2012 1:28 PM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2012 4:49 AM saab93f has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9510
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 419 of 722 (683602)
12-12-2012 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by saab93f
12-12-2012 4:24 AM


If we are able to say that God as good, then we are also able to say that he is evil - we must apply the same logic.
If you say we can't judge him at all because he is beyond our knowledge, then we can only be agnostic.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by saab93f, posted 12-12-2012 4:24 AM saab93f has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 420 of 722 (683607)
12-12-2012 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Faith
12-11-2012 11:29 PM


Re: THE Church
Actually Faith, I think once again you are misrepresenting stuff. The quotes and references I posted in this thread were the actual Bible Quotes. They were not commentary except perhaps the link to the Preface of the 1611 King James Bible.
You also continue to imply that I am not a Protestant even though I am a member of a Protestant Chapter of Club Christian.
As I said back in Message 412:
jar writes:
I am a Protestant, get used to it.
Matthew writes:
Matt.16:18-19: "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
I actually have read the Bible, Faith.
And it STILL has nothing to do with the topic but it does come just a few chapters before Jesus admits he is neither good or perfect.
Note that last line since it's actually on topic. Jesus said that Jesus was neither perfect or good.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Faith, posted 12-11-2012 11:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 431 by Faith, posted 12-12-2012 2:35 PM jar has replied

  
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