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Author Topic:   The $5,000,000 ID Research Challenge
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 107 of 285 (683843)
12-13-2012 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by ringo
12-12-2012 11:01 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
You seem to have lost the plot. This discussion is about YOU - i.e. the "people of faith" - finding data for YOUR conclusion. It's about YOU being offered money to find that data. The question is, Why are you more interested in ranting than in testing YOUR own conclusions?

My faith does not require a religion mister ringo. I do not have the education to perform advanced brain analisis. I do not have the engineering and physics degrees to build a better space engine. But I know where to start, and that scientists who have those capabilities are out there.

So you wanted my true honest beliefs and opinions, and I give them, and you cannot find fault in them, you just choose to hold on to your beliefs, and be the naysayers that keep science from growing like all skeptics do. you want to know what the problem is between religion and science? science is so hard set to destroy religion that it is limiting it's own capabilities in science itself.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by ringo, posted 12-12-2012 11:01 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Taq, posted 12-14-2012 12:03 PM tesla has responded
 Message 112 by ringo, posted 12-14-2012 12:04 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 113 of 285 (683991)
12-14-2012 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Percy
12-14-2012 8:07 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
Imagine that you're competing with proposals from other Christians. How are you going to convince a board of Christian fundamentalists that their $5,000,000 should be spent on seeking an omnipresent God in space or in the brain? How would you answer their questions, which might be somewhat like these:

•What leads you to believe God can be found through non-spiritual means?

•What if God is at the center of the Earth or Sun?

•What should we be looking for in the brain that would lead us to God?

•Have you had your sanity checked?

•...etc...

--Percy

Anything that exists is natural to existence. What if? Well, what if? You cannot start exploring potentials without the engineering capabilities to do so. Without a hadron collider, who could know what we know today about particle collisions?

In the brain: we need to be able to interpret the codes on how the brain is storing and relaying information. It could be unique to each brain. when science can read thoughts and see or smell memories, then science can boast it know the brain, and more about consciousness.

Sanity? That depends on who is judging. A fanatical Christian can decide you’re insane for not trusting what they believe, just as you can judge a man insane for believing in anything.

If you want the specific tests that will be run, you need to talk to persons in those fields I have mentioned that could make breakthroughs in consciousness and interstellar travels. But then, I've said that once already haven't I?


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Percy, posted 12-14-2012 8:07 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Percy, posted 12-14-2012 8:51 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 114 of 285 (683992)
12-14-2012 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by ringo
12-14-2012 12:04 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
No I didn't. I wanted to know why you're unwilling to test your beliefs and opinions.

I am willing. But you cannot explore past the capabilities of science. I'm suggesting improving scientific capabilities so that tests could be run.

Edited by tesla, : edit.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by ringo, posted 12-14-2012 12:04 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by ringo, posted 12-15-2012 11:31 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 115 of 285 (683993)
12-14-2012 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Son
12-14-2012 9:03 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
If people will spend billions building a hadron collider, which they had no idea what was going to happen when the hydrogen collided, why wouldn't people spend on how to read thoughts and see dreams?

You’re skirting the importance of the concept of God, and the entire path that leads to the capability to research that.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Son, posted 12-14-2012 9:03 AM Son has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Son, posted 12-15-2012 4:12 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 116 of 285 (683994)
12-14-2012 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Taq
12-14-2012 12:00 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.

1. Science does not have any data to support, or deny greater being.

What experiments did you run to determine this?

For real dude? Are you going to pretend to be dumb and blind? It doesn't take an experiment to prove where scientific knowledge ends.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Taq, posted 12-14-2012 12:00 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 117 of 285 (683995)
12-14-2012 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Taq
12-14-2012 12:03 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
We wanted you to describe actual hypotheses and the experiments that will be used to test them. The last thing we want is your beliefs and opinions.

I mentioned a couple tests. the current knowledge and equipment of today's science cannot complete them. Science needs better capabilities first.

Hypothesis: a greater consciousness exists on another planet.

Experiment: fly to other planets and see.

Hypothesis: information of a greater consciousness can communicate long distances.

Experiment: find a common algorithm based on how human consciousness reads and writes data for dreams, communication, thoughts and the like, then scan all frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum to see if there is any similar coding.

Hypothesis: We can create a greater consciousness than our own if we build a computer designed based on the brain, but make it much larger, and input a lot more knowledge and energy. a true AI.

Experiment: sink money into AI research (programmers etc.), model the human brains communication methods. Tons of options here.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Taq, posted 12-14-2012 12:03 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Taq, posted 12-17-2012 11:03 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 120 of 285 (684057)
12-15-2012 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Percy
12-14-2012 8:51 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
You must have been a wonderful test taker:

"What year did Columbus discover America?"
"If you want to know that you'll have to talk to someone who read the chapter."

Obviously you're not getting the $5,000,000.

--Percy

Why would you hire a director to act, if he's a director? Would you hire a roofer to frame your house? Even if I was a neurosurgeon, and outlined some experimentation, you here would find a way to ignore the significance of the research and how it is related to I.D. science.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Percy, posted 12-14-2012 8:51 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Percy, posted 12-15-2012 1:32 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 121 of 285 (684063)
12-15-2012 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Son
12-15-2012 4:12 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
See message 117.

It doesn't matter. The conversations here are not about the truth, unless that truth fits the ideology of the long time posters here.

I have outlined enough to show where I.D. is valid. I recognize people have different versions of what I.D. science is, and how to go about exploring the potentials.

I firmly believe that one day (if the human race does not go extinct) that greater consciousness will be found--and even a true concept of God, and the higher emotion felt and relayed as 'The holy Ghost'--will better be understood. Regardless of how many in science or otherwise choose to ignore the significance and importance of understanding our humanity, and the universe and the connections to each other, enough people do. And I believe those connections will be made. And if in that 'God' is found, I will not be surprised.

I'm tired of the conversations here anymore. It's just not productive to go in circles with those who refuse to open their minds. It's even more aggravating when those close minded accuse the open minded of being closed minded. So, I'm going to bring the conversation to its end, as far as my contributions to it.

God is, or God is not? Was humanity a result of a design by a greater intelligence? Was the universe and all we know of it a result of a decision? Maybe one day we will know. But with current technological limitations, it remains a potential.

Dream deeper, because life is too short to bullshit ourselves through it and be satisfied.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Son, posted 12-15-2012 4:12 AM Son has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Son, posted 12-15-2012 12:48 PM tesla has responded
 Message 127 by Taq, posted 12-17-2012 11:08 AM tesla has responded
 Message 144 by Drosophilla, posted 12-31-2012 12:50 PM tesla has acknowledged this reply

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 128 of 285 (685456)
12-22-2012 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by ringo
12-15-2012 11:31 AM


Chicken or the Egg?
You've got a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem there. Before science can invent the machinery to do the test, you have to be specific about what you want to test. For the umpteenth time, that's what this thread is all about - for you to propose specific tests and specific equipment to do the tests with. If you need a machine to detect "design waves" then tell us what their properties are and we'll put the lab boys and girls to work on it.

Are you in the field of brain science? You see the robotic arm a woman is moving with an implant? Here’s what I want done. I want the language of the brain understood to the point you can watch dreams on a screen, and even have a meter to show emotional feelings connected to the dream etc.

Now...I also mentioned space travel. Let’s go the speed of light. Are you a knowledgeable physicist? If so, then you will know where to start? No? Well then, who does? (If you are knowledgeable physicists, I’ll engage in a discussion of solar sails and frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum, shielding, etc.)

See, your beating the dead horse, and I've already explained where to start looking, and that I am not educated enough in those fields to be designing such experiments. I know the end game starts with first gaining better scientific capabilities to make looking possible. With current technology and knowledge, looking directly is impossible.

Should I save that last paragraph to just cut and paste for the next time I get this response? It’s a common one.

Oh yeah, chicken and the egg, yeah, that is the question I’m proposing we answer.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by ringo, posted 12-15-2012 11:31 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by NoNukes, posted 12-27-2012 9:07 AM tesla has responded
 Message 152 by ringo, posted 01-14-2013 11:43 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 129 of 285 (685458)
12-23-2012 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Son
12-15-2012 12:48 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
Since efficiency is a problem with space travel, I would suggest the following experiments be carried out:

Take a piece of tempered copper, and shoot it with every frequency of the electromagnetic spectrum, find which frequency heats the copper with the least energy cost.

Repeat that experiment on everything.

(Tempered copper is used in a technology that uses infra-red light to heat the copper, and heat rooms to a comfortable temperature without combustion, and cheaply.)

Report energy in joules, Temperature in Kelvin. Joules in, Joules out. Residence time on heating needs to be known. How fast it reaches a temperature, how long it takes to dissipate etc. basically you’ll need a bomb to run the experiments in. Q=MCpDT, but we also need to run some statistical analysis of heating time and durations of exposure etc. because 500 may =500 (energy in=energy out) but the places the energy goes because of different residence times will mean one 500 may be a better 500 based on where we want the final 500 to be.

Start there and get back to me. It’s related to space travel, which is related to greater extraterrestrial being, which is related to I.D. research, and therefore is I.D. science.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Son, posted 12-15-2012 12:48 PM Son has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Son, posted 12-23-2012 4:27 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 130 of 285 (685460)
12-23-2012 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Percy
12-15-2012 1:32 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
I didn't hire you.

I was invited. What I’m saying is relevant, but you do not have enough brains to see it? So before you going spewing how someone is doing no good being here, recognize that so far you have offered nothing but naysaying and pessimism. Well if scientists think science is done exploring the things we don't know, then science is dead, and we need some real scientists.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Percy, posted 12-15-2012 1:32 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Percy, posted 12-23-2012 8:08 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 131 of 285 (685461)
12-23-2012 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Taq
12-17-2012 11:03 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
Because if a greater consciousness existed, it would find more than we can and see things we cannot see. So we'll know more about the last 4.5 billion years, if higher consciousness could even get us to understand it. But it’s still and interesting and potential thing.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Taq, posted 12-17-2012 11:03 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Taq, posted 01-02-2013 6:19 PM tesla has acknowledged this reply

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 132 of 285 (685463)
12-23-2012 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Taq
12-17-2012 11:08 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
That's exactly what dreams are, bullshitting ourselves into thinking that we have an explanation.

So you admit you DON'T know? good. now since we like science lets research what we don't know, and think we know, and find out what we don't know, y'know?


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Taq, posted 12-17-2012 11:08 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 135 of 285 (685676)
12-24-2012 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Percy
12-23-2012 8:08 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
How would research into space travel and the brain relate to ID?

See? there it is again. I should have cut and paste the answer. *stomps foot*

ok, since your full of hot air:

The Nobels are the most prestigious prizes in the science world, awarded for physics, chemistry and medicine. One of the recipients of this year's medicine prize, Prof John Gurdon, relished the story of a poor school report by his biology teacher, who branded his scientific ambitions as "a waste of time"


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Percy, posted 12-23-2012 8:08 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 136 of 285 (685677)
12-24-2012 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Son
12-23-2012 4:27 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
Saying it is related to ID science oesnt make it so.

It's the chicken or the egg son, potato potato.

See, to me science is science. The questions differ, so the fields differ. Geology, biology, astrology, physics, astrophysics, and now someone says intelligent design, like it's a field. It’s not a field, it's a question asked to acknowledge the potential of greater being.

Consider the difference that is made in the evolution of a species when it is manipulated by an intelligent being. Plant cross breeds and hybrids, fox's become dogs. What role does such a tiny planet play in the realm of intelligence in the universe?

That is the real question. Intelligent Design is one proposal as an answer to that question. Just like the big bang is a description of what mathematically happened, which some unanswered questions remain, and there is needed more detailed proof to support interpretations by allowing opposing interpretations to exist for debate and argument.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Son, posted 12-23-2012 4:27 AM Son has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Coyote, posted 12-25-2012 1:31 AM tesla has responded
 Message 138 by Son, posted 12-25-2012 5:05 AM tesla has acknowledged this reply

  
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