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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No, I may not have needed to be armed but that does not imply that I will not need to be armed.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9143 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Actually I do know what the founders wanted and it was NOT an organized militia for the very reason that such a body can be used against the people which is the exact opposite of the intent of the amendment You obviously haven't read the Constitution.
quote: And seem to be unable to understand the vast majority of the quotes you posted. You are a right wing freak that no amount of reality will intrude upon your fantasy world. Your revisionist view of history, unquestioning belief in radical interpretations of a iron age text and hate for other people, and the people like you will destroy this country.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi Theodoric,
... read the Constitution.
quote: Those militias are run by the individual states, who are responsible for setting\appointing the various ranks of individuals, with supplies from the feds for arms. Today these militias are the state run National Guard units. You want to bear arms? Join the National Guard. You want to play with big guns? Join the National Guard. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : subtitleby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1489 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined:
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Evidence? What do you mean, "evidence"? It's trivially true; guns save lives in some circumstances. Make guns less available, and you take a gun out of some number of marginal situations where it would have saved a life. Therefore your gun control has taken one life. If that lost life is matched by two or more lives saved in other circumstances, that's one thing. I think that's justifiable. But diminishing returns kicks in, as it does in all things. Eventually you're losing one life in exchange for one life. Eventually you're losing two lives for each life saved. That's trivially true. I don't know where those inflection points are; gun control is kind of a multivariate thing, you can't really say "we need X amount of more gun control", but I just don't see how it can be denied.
The data is freely available, and it clearly shows that countries like Japan, the UK, Norway, Sweden, and so on all have significantly fewer deaths per capita due to gun violence than the US. But that's not the right comparison, now is it? It doesn't follow that if a gun would have saved your life, that you died as a result of what would be categorized "gun violence."
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 879 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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I have never been a big fan of gun control but I think my position is softening somewhat. I would gladly surrender my guns if I believed that it would stop this kind of senseless violence. I am still not convinced that this would be the case, but I do now recognize that we have a gun problem in the US ... a very serious problem.
The problem is that guns are the symptom of the problem, not the disease. We have become a very violent society. Our television is dominated by violent programming - from the news to cop shows ... to reality shows ... to teen vampire shows etc ... It is hard to find a non-violent show on television. Video games are dominated by violence. Our sports entertainment is violent (maybe not killing but violent non-the-less) We are a violence-loving society! I am not saying that because someone plays a violent video game that they will go out and shoot up an elementary school. That takes a particularly sick and demented bastard. And I have no idea what would make someone target an elementary school - easy targets I guess??? But take all the guns away and we will still be a violence-loving society. These sick and demented bastards that want to kill and maim for some unknown screwed up reason will just have to use axes and machetes instead of guns. And it does happen. Look at what happened in Rwanda - thousands of people were hacked to death with machetes. People who want to kill will kill with or without guns. So until we are willing to give up our lust for violence, these kinds of things will continue to happen. On a personal note: I had not heard about the shootings until I picked up my 5 year old son at school and brought him to his grandmas house. When I walked in with Tyler, my mom started bawling. I'm like what the??? She told me the news and said it had really upset her to think that it could of been any school and it could have been any child including mine. Truly a heart wrenching thought. It is just incomprehensible to me what these families in Connecticut are going through right now. Incomprehensible ... HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. |
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1489 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined:
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I expect a reasonable amount of safety to be granted my kids, what with living in the fucking United States of America as opposed to some 3rd world country ravaged by war daily. You're right, Connecticut IS supposed to be a safe as shit place. But look, they're just as safe today as they were yesterday. It's not like this is the first school shooting ever. It's not even like a school shooting is a statistically significant way to die. It's like being hit by a meteor. I sympathise with, and grieve for, the parents who lost children but it's still the case that the leading cause of death in children is traffic accidents.
You know how it's a problem? When god damn CONNECTICUT gets shot up. I just don't get that. The fact that it happened in Connecticut indicates, to me, that this is an incredibly rare event that's going to happen in some statistically-uneliminateable small number of cases, regardless of our legal gun control regime.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1489 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined:
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Then maybe the laws aren't strict enough? Then maybe the tax cuts weren't deep enough? Sure, more tax cuts, that's the ticket.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1489 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined:
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Thank you for that information. I'd argue that if we were better educated about these things, and the people who possess guns were informed and trained and expected to carry them in more ordinary situations than people now think necessary, that it COULD have definitely made the situation better. it could have stopped this murder spree cold. Yes it could have. Sure but that's not the only concern, is it? Surely we have broader concerns than keeping one school in Connecticut safe from a shooting spree. Isn't our concern broadly with the safety of every American schoolkid? I just don't see that posting armed amateurs at a million American schools makes things safer in aggregate. Sure, you might stop the astronomically-unlikely possibility of a shooting spree - at the cost of turning a huge number of safe situations into accidental shootings.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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I sympathise with, and grieve for, the parents who lost children but it's still the case that the leading cause of death in children is traffic accidents. And yet we still vaccinate our kids against smallpox.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Here we have this right, which was really regarded as a duty in earlier days, to be armed for our own protection and the protection of our neighbors, and we aren't using it. You know, I bet even in the golden days of the Founding Fathers primary school teachers didn't take their muskets into class to defend against potential school shootings.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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And these murders do seem to occur in gun controlled areas, such as that theater where a shooting occurred not long ago, in a totally gun free area. Just a couple of armed people in the audience might have stopped that murder spree in its tracks. Have you forgotten the shooting in Tuscon last year? It would be difficult to find a more gun friendly environment than Tuscon Arizona.
Here we have this right, which was really regarded as a duty in earlier days, to be armed for our own protection and the protection of our neighbors, and we aren't using it. Are you seriously suggesting that our best solution is guns in k-4 schools? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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We had/have a problem with knife crime. We toughened the law on carrying knives and on using them so that to anyone using them to just threaten will get 6 months minimum - probably much more.
I have my doubts about whether it deterrs much, but what we didn't do was say that because some thugs carry knives then everyone should. That would be preposterous wouldn't it?Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes: ... what we didn't do was say that because some thugs carry knives then everyone should. That would be preposterous wouldn't it? quote: I carry two. (I've never even met anybody who owns a gun "for protection".)
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Best leave it/them at home if you come here:
Possession of Blades/PointsSection 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 prohibits having with you, in a public place of any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed, (including a folding pocket knife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 7.62cm/3 inches) (Archbold 24-125). Section 139A of the 1988 Act extends the geographical scope of both of the above offences to school premises.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost:
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- A man opened fire early Saturday at a hospital in Alabama, wounding a police officer and two employees before being shot and killed by another officer, authorities said. --Percy
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