Is God good?

can you give me a source where hitler said creationist things?

qsI mean affect their whole philosophy of life to the point where they would start doing things they would not have done without the influence of darwin. [/qs]When Nietzsche said, "God is dead"implying that man was not and had replaced God as the Superman he envisioned, he was suggesting an evolutionary step forward as clearly as the Mormons now believe will take place though God will still live but o his own separate planet from their own.Nevertheless, the influence of Nietzsche actually was more to suggest to Hitler that supermen could be decreed immediately, through breeding.That idea may or may not have been influenced by Darwin.A super race was not really an idea original to Darwinism, but had even been understood when Jacob controlled the traits of cattle and sheep using Mendel's same techniques long before Moses appeared.But, I will grant you that like Obama and the "Progressives" of today, and every architect of an Utopian Society, the Force of Social Darwinism is subtly in their mind.

Whatever Hitler may have said in regard to the Bible and religion he would have hidden his conviction that "God was dead" and the work of the future was in in his hands, because it was Nietzsche who so strongly influenced him, not Darwin."During the 1930's, aspects of Nietzsche's thought were espoused by the Nazis and Italian Fascists, partly due to the encouragement of Elisabeth Frster-Nietzsche through her associations with Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. It was possible for the Nazi interpreters to assemble, quite selectively, various passages from Nietzsche's writings whose juxtaposition appeared to justify war, aggression and domination for the sake of nationalistic and racial self-glorification."

I would think that more important influences would have been:Germany's defeat in WWI and the humiliations of the Treaty of VersaillesThe Great Depression and its impact on GermanyThe racial theories of Gobineau, as developed by Houston Stewart ChamberlainThe music and thought of composer Richard WagnerThe long history of anti-semitism in Christianity (e.g. the Blood Libel, Luther's On the Jews and Their Lies)

Yes,... sociology, not Darwinism.The philosophy of Religion on the Right, over a millennia, coupled to Nietzsche's Power of the Will on the Left united the entire nation against Jews who had enough welath that it paid for 1/3 of all the War costs at a time when the government was broke, financially.The perfect storm and scape goat:Gen. 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him, (an uncastrated male sheep), a ram, (also, figuratively, [ayil: the political chiefs]; symbolic of the European Jewish rabbi), caught in a thicket (of the Nazi persecution), by his horns, (or, his power: [symbolic Dictionary]):
and Abraham, (in analogy to God), went and took, (in place of the lamb of his only son, Isaac), the ram, (the Jewish people and leadership in Europe of the 20th century to come), and offered him, (as a Burnt Offering, the sin offering, the Jewish people themselves: [Exodus 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, Thus says the Lord, ‘Israel is My son, my first born.’]), up (in holocaust) for a burnt offering (in the crematoriums of WWII, the Burnt Offering of Israel, the chosen son of God in the stead of (Isaac), his (only) son, (in analogy, as was Christ offered for their salvation).It was all pedictable...

As for references for God in Nazi propoganga, I never said Darwinian Evolution was the only rationale these people grasped at. The subtile mentions human races. That is a very significant place. I don't for a minute assume that the title was designed to only refer to subspecies of animals and plants. Afterall the purpose of a title is to sell the book. And sensationalism had its place then as it has its place now.Besides, I never said that Origin of Species was the sole and only place Hitler and his henchmen gathered ideas to justify Nazism. It is disingenuous for you to to ignore the link. You are trying to make dung look like icecream.I would go as far to say the the perversion of Darwin's racism to be utlized for Nazism is less than the perversion of the Gospels to be utilized by the Inquisitors in the Spanish Inquisition.Ie. I think you had to do more twisting of Christ's teaching to justify the Inquisition then you have to twist Darwin's racism to arrive at Holocaust justification.I would not try to deny that statements in the New Testament were used to justify the Inquisition. I don't know why you bristle so at the obvious fact that Darwin's ideas were utilized by Hitler.I think you should just be wiling to admit it. You could always say that such utilization of Darwin's ideas [do not] prove the untruth of Evolution.I would admit that the Inquisitors grasped the statement of Jesus to "go ... compel them" to carry out horrors in the name of Christ. I don't like it. But I won't deny it. I don't think you should try to completely separate Hitler's Master Race idealism for the Aryian people from Darwin's ideasYour bristling at the suggestion that Darwin's IDEAS, which also include the subtitle of Origin, is more like reacting to an offense against your religion.

quote:

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"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the athropomorphous apes will not doubt be exterminated."

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Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, 1871, pg. 119

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I think Darwin is speaking of black Africans there. Hitler's disdain for the successful atheletic feats in the Berlin World Olympic of the black Jesse Owens has been recorded. Jesse Owens trophies went against Hitler's idealogy that white Aryans did everything better than everyone else, especially Africans.If I recall correctly, at one point Hitler turned his back to the triumphs of Jesse Owens, refusing to watch a black man out do someone of the master race. Don't insult my intelligence that Darwin's ideas had nothing to do with that.You skeptics too often want us Christians to take heat for religious sins. You can dish it out but you can't take it. How you bristle in denial at the history of Nazism's connection to Darwin is ironic. Maybe its because you've made Evolution your secular religion.(Thanks Panda - about the Preview) Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I believe that God's goodness necessitates His hatred of sins.
I don't believe that God is good yet indifferent to sins against His government.The argument here is the question "Is God Good?" I think related to the discussion is the belief that IF God is indeed the highest Good, than justice, and even eternal punishment are good.Why is this related ? Because time and again the skeptic in God's goodness will point to His acts of judment to demonstrate He is not good. But this assumes that a "good" God will never judge, will never condemn, will never hate sin and sins, will never punish unrighteousness.There reason there is eternal suffering of the lost is because there is eternal sinning among the lost. Often it is argued that man's past sins are not sufficient to deem him worthy of eternal punishment. But what if sinning is infinite ?If during this life of God's blessings the sinner speaks evil things about God, HOW MUCH MORE when he is removed from the realm of God's blessings ? Is God obligued to tolerate and endless flow of insults and blasphemies from the lips of the lost rebels ?Eternal punishment must be the just and good reaction to infinite rebellion. The door of mercy was shut by the unbeliever who put himself beyond redemptive remedy graciously offered by God. In His goodness, Christ's blood was enough to God's wrath against sin to be satisfied forever, if the sinner will only believe in Christ for Him to be his Substitute.It is not just man's past acts then that incur God's wrath. It is his continued state that he enters eternity in that will call for endless misery of just judgment.Someone can explain to me how a eternally good God would not and cannot also have hatred against evil and punish evil. How does that work? How is it that a Ultimately Good Governor doesn't care about transgression against good so as not to display anger against the unrepentant and willingly unredeemable sinner ?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

But so far you have presented no evidence other than unsupported assertion that any of God's acts of judgement were justified in any way and in fact, the three I pointed out to you are definitely not justified in the stories.For example the God in the Exodus myth is simply wagging It's dick to show that It had a bigger dick than Pharaoh's Gods according to the story. When Pharaoh agrees to let the Hebrews go and then God hardens his heart, how is that in any way justice?

Incorrect, that no evidence was given. I spoke about evidence in the case of Noah's flood, the case of the Amalekites and some other Canaanites.Without checking I don't recall what specific three cases you mean. But I gave evidence in some of the most significant OT instances.
You don't like the evidence. I'm not waiting around for you to like the evidence.Among other harshly judged people were the Midianites. Oh, they were the people who sought to corrupt Israel through mass fornication with the Hebrew men. This consipiracey was invented by the prophet Balaam who, let's say, "went over to the dark side."He was a prophet of God who loved money more than truth. He advized the Medianites to seduce Israel away from God with the lure of mass fornication with their women. For this the Medianites were very harshly judged.Not all societies were so harshly judged. These few that I mention are examples of very harsh divine judgment. The rest of your post is disgusting. And it reveals argument by revulsion. No need to dignify low talk that junior high level naughty boys could scribble on the walls of the Boy's Room stalls.It doesn't belong to the Forum. And it cheapens it. I think you should be suspended. But a moderator I am not.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

And so you cannot support your assertion that the God found in Exodus, Joshuah and the Flood myths is not even more evil than Hitler it seems.Have you ever read the Bible?

I don't want to read any more of what you write. I heard the filth to come from your mouth / your keyboard.We're through. You're on ignore - waste of time.

Yet you never tried to explain how the Gods found in Joshuah, Exodus or the Flood myths could be considered good if those stories were true.

You are a liar. And I know that you are lying, so why bother?I have not the patience to go through the rest of your crap in detail, I will merely remind you that shit you like to imagine in your head does not constitute evidence. It constitutes imaginary shit. If you can't even try to debate honestly ... then you might just be a creationist.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

The question is about certain acts of judgment done by God in the Old Testament.Some are difficult to read. But I believe they must reveal rather than negate the goodness of God. Suppose it is we who are abnormal in our expectation that God should be ultimately permissive towards the worst transgressions of His law?It is a question, at least, the reader of the Bible should consider.Deuteronomy 32:4 - " A God of truth and without iniquity; just and right is He". The Egyptians had conspired to kill the boys of the Hebrews, every one. Moses escaped. The Egyptian name Moses means drawn out of the water. For his Jewish mother hid the child in the swampy water and he was raised by Pharoah's daughter.A life time latter God sends Moses to deliver the slave Hebrews. Ten miraculous plagues come upon Egypt growing worse and worse in intensity. The LAST of the ten involves God's retribution up the firstborn of all whose parents would not heed the Passover instructions. Scores of firstborn Egyptians DIED in the judgment.My persuasion is that Deuteronomy is right - God is without iniquity and just and right is He. But the settling of accounts is not easy for me to read or take.Sometimes judgement is not easy for us to read about. "The Lord is righteous is all His ways, and holy in all His works" Psalm CXLV. 17In Nehemiah 9:33 the prophet speaks on behalf of the disciplined people would were punished in the dispersion to Babylon - "Howbeit You are just in all that is brought upon us' for You have done right, but we have done wickedly." He is saying in essence "God did not do wrong to punish us. Rather we did wrong and deserved it."But there are indeed other places in the Bible where evil was spoken of God or His prophets. Christ as the Son of God was accused and persecuted by religious people for being evil.Concering His Father, Christ not once accuses Him of evil. He calls Him "Righteous Father". He says the world has not known Him - "Righteous Father, the world has not known You. But I have known You ..." (John 17:25) This implies that the world has not recognized how righteous God was and is. This would include the world not appreciating God' righteous nature in the Old Testament judgment acts.As God is righteous. He hates evil. As He is the ruler of all, He is the maker of laws. These laws have righteous penalties already affixed and published. If God is Just and True, He must execute those penalties.The center of the Bible might be considered the death of the Son of God upon His cross for man's redemption from the judgment of sin. There at the cross the love of God for man works. But the hatred of God for sin also works.There on the cross of Christ the love of God and the justice of God coordinate together. God shows His great love for man yet also upholds His holy and righteous indignation against sin.There on the cross also the love of God towards the man He has created CLASHED with the hated of man towards God his Creator. Divine love to man comes clashing head on into man's distrust for God.Some instances of God's fore witnessed attitude towards man's sinning are hard to take. I don't like some of them. I am hard pressed to explain some of them. But I believe that to judge God as evil for them is to judge partially.1.) All facts are not known by me as they were known to God.
2.) My judgment influenced by an inward bribe leaning towards my own race of man to a degree that is not just.The verdict on behalf of sinners against God is probably more vested in human sinner self interest than is just.This may be like felons pretending to condemn the laws against felony. I suspect that the tendency to sympathize more with pain and less with the need for judgment of sin, is fortified with self interest. I think my thinking to want to condemn God as evil is probably more ignorance than enlightenment.The sinner's tendency is to lightly esteem the seriousness of sinning. The Bible says our hearts are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) In this matter I have come to believe that Proverbs 28:26 is true - "He that trusts in his own heart is a fool." There are MANY even thousands of instances of God's patience and mercy, longsuffering and forgiveness in Scripture. There are also instances of judgment tempered with some degree of mercy and understanding.And there are those few instances of very harsh judgment. The eye shall not pity, God said. These are a minority of instances. But they are there.I don't think there is a person who ever lived save probably Jesus, who liked everything written in the Bible.

What is the lie ?Racists have loved Darwin for years. Hitler included. When my father fought in World War II he said that in Italy the women would pat the black soldiers on the butt trying to feel their TAILS.Why? Because of the Darwin evolutionary theory running strong in Europe in which some races were more human and others were closer to apes.You can spin until you're blue in the face. Hitler's fascist racism was fueled by your beloved Charles Darwin's ideas.You're lying to yourself to deny the enfluence of Evolution Theory on Nazi Germany.As for Hitler's references to God. Sure, he grasped at theology too (Christian and Norse). But who was really "GOD" to Hitler? The Fuerer himself was the highest and most supreme and he would answer to no one. When it comes down to it it was Adolf Hitler who was playing God who would answer to no one higher.Dr. Adequate, you're woefully Inadequate to look at these things realistically. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.