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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 511 of 5179 (684778)
12-18-2012 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by Theodoric
12-18-2012 3:31 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
This is one of a long list of things that Crash threw out without any support.
But it is the support. You can't claim that my support isn't supported, that makes no sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Theodoric, posted 12-18-2012 3:31 PM Theodoric has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 512 of 5179 (684779)
12-18-2012 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by vimesey
12-18-2012 3:58 PM


Re: And so the pendulum swings again.
Seriously ?
Yeah, which ones. There's a context for my remarks, here, and it didn't involve children, so unspecified "kids" are a non sequitur I don't understand. Since I wasn't ever talking about fucking children, I'm just wondering which kids Panda wants to fuck. He'll have to tell me; fucking children isn't my thing. Whatever works for him, though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by vimesey, posted 12-18-2012 3:58 PM vimesey has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 513 of 5179 (684782)
12-18-2012 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Rahvin
12-18-2012 3:59 PM


Re: And so the pendulum swings again.
Strange how that line goes down over time.
If you concentrate only on the part that goes down, years after the gun ban went into effect, then you're just cherry-picking. I'm prepared to accept that the eventual decline in crime is associated with Australia's gun ban, but the trend is U-shaped, the same U-shaped curve seen in every OECD country over the same period:
including those that didn't pass much in the way of gun control.
So why, Rahvin, should I believe that Australia's eventual small decrease in the homicide rate was solely the result of a gun law passed almost a decade earlier, and not just Australia following the same trend everyone else followed?
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Reduce image size.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 520 by kofh2u, posted 12-18-2012 5:06 PM crashfrog has not replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 514 of 5179 (684783)
12-18-2012 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 509 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 4:00 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
Crashfrog writes:
Well, no. That's not my hypothesis, it was Rahvin'soh,
Haha.........did I hear a cock crow?
Ok, I'll just have to trawl back through 35 pages of posts to find your source I guess - I'm intrigued to understand how our UK burglars are so care free. Thanks for the effort.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 4:00 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 4:35 PM Tangle has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 515 of 5179 (684785)
12-18-2012 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by Tangle
12-18-2012 2:33 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
I can't find numbers on occupied burglary in the UK but the FBI tell us that it happens in 60% of all burglaries in the USA.
This "source" is a website that sells home security systems. It's not the FBI.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Tangle, posted 12-18-2012 2:33 PM Tangle has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 516 of 5179 (684786)
12-18-2012 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 514 by Tangle
12-18-2012 4:29 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
Find your own source. But make sure you can tell the difference between a website hawking security systems and the FBI.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Tangle, posted 12-18-2012 4:29 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by Tangle, posted 12-18-2012 4:57 PM crashfrog has replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 517 of 5179 (684794)
12-18-2012 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 516 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 4:35 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
Crashfrog writes:
Find your own source. But make sure you can tell the difference between a website hawking security systems and the FBI.
The website quotes the source as
* FBI Crime Statistics
But i agree it would be nice to see the actual data, so I'll keep looking. Meanwhile, if you actually want to play this game, you could also produce your sources.
Btw. Your OECD graphs are interesting but don't, of course tell us anything about guns. They also omit suicides by guns which is a large number in the USA.
As you didn't provide a link to that graph I looked it up for you.
Assault Death Rates in America: Some Follow-Up - kieranhealy.org
The source is a blogger who doesn't do any work in the area but nevertheless his number are quite interesting. He has updated his numbers since the latest shooting.
We can only hope that as the world civilises it gets less violent - even though the US is miles ahead of everybody else in the violence game.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 4:35 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 519 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 5:03 PM Tangle has replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3838 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 518 of 5179 (684796)
12-18-2012 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by Rahvin
12-18-2012 11:52 AM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
And the murder rate in the US is actually four times that of the UK.
Its almost ALL urban, city crime in America, where we house the Welfare recipients who raise fatherless kids responsible for 70% of all violent crime.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Rahvin, posted 12-18-2012 11:52 AM Rahvin has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 519 of 5179 (684797)
12-18-2012 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 517 by Tangle
12-18-2012 4:57 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
* FBI Crime Statistics
Here in the US, the government keeps track of crime via the Bureau of Justice Statistics. While I'm sure the FBI keeps track of crime to some extent, there's no such thing as "FBI Crime Statistics."
But once again, I'm flabbergasted at the difference in skepticism you're showing, here. Anything I say is subject to intense doubt and challenge, but a website produces a claim from whole cloth that works to your advantage, and you adopt it without question.
Btw. Your OECD graphs are interesting but don't, of course tell us anything about guns.
They're not meant to tell you anything about guns, and I never said they were about guns. They were about homicides. Is there some reason that wasn't clear in your post? I told you precisely what claim they were produced to support. That they don't support another claim, which I didn't make, is irrelevant.
even though the US is miles ahead of everybody else in the violence game.
Oh, no doubt. But in all types of assaults - not just gun assaults.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Tangle, posted 12-18-2012 4:57 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by vimesey, posted 12-18-2012 5:13 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 524 by Theodoric, posted 12-18-2012 5:29 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 528 by Tangle, posted 12-18-2012 5:37 PM crashfrog has replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3838 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 520 of 5179 (684800)
12-18-2012 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 513 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 4:10 PM


Re: And so the pendulum swings again.
Notice the sudden dip when Abortions and Planned Parenthood focused on eliminating the Single Mothers by killing off half the annual illegitimate pregnacies starting just 10-15 years BEFORE the crime rates dropped:
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Reduce first image size.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 4:10 PM crashfrog has not replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 521 of 5179 (684802)
12-18-2012 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 5:03 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
Just to clarify, though, Crash, before I have a go at digging up the statistics, you are going to stick with your statement that the rate of occupied burglaries in the UK is 4 times that of the rate of occupied burglaries in the US ?
I just want to be clear on your claim, before I research the point.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 5:03 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 5:25 PM vimesey has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 522 of 5179 (684806)
12-18-2012 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 521 by vimesey
12-18-2012 5:13 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
My recollection, looking at this two days ago, was that the US had an occupied burglaries rate of about 10%, while in the UK it was 40%.
But that's just from memory, so I can't stand on those exact figures. Regardless, yes, my position is that the UK has a much higher rate of occupied burglary/home invasion than the US.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by vimesey, posted 12-18-2012 5:13 PM vimesey has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 523 of 5179 (684807)
12-18-2012 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 505 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 3:56 PM


Re: post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy
Crashfrog writes:
There's a name for what that's called, but I don't seem to be allowed to tell you what it is. Perhaps you can use your imagination.
I'll let you work it out yourself.
Your greater experience of posting them makes you more more of an expert than I.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 3:56 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 5:30 PM Panda has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9133
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 524 of 5179 (684808)
12-18-2012 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 5:03 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
They're not meant to tell you anything about guns, and I never said they were about guns. They were about homicides.
So not about the topic?
Classic.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 5:03 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 5:32 PM Theodoric has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 525 of 5179 (684809)
12-18-2012 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 523 by Panda
12-18-2012 5:26 PM


Re: post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy
I'll let you work it out yourself.
That makes no sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 523 by Panda, posted 12-18-2012 5:26 PM Panda has not replied

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