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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 646 of 5179 (685145)
12-20-2012 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 642 by ooh-child
12-20-2012 4:48 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
I MIGHT, I MIGHT NOT. I HAVE NOT CONSIDERED THE SITUATION. I stated the Second Amendment principle, I support the principle, there's a reason we have the Second Amendment, to give us security against ALL KINDS OF TYRANNIES AND PREDATIONS, including CRIME, house invasion, government roundjups, gthe works. Some situations are obviously going to be beyond small arms resistance. Good grief, stop pushing the envelope here.
And yes, if a kid knows the car owner is armed the kid will leave the car alone. Two plus two is four.
But how very odd that this parent is requring me to be protecting his kid from harm during a criminal act as if it's just normal to expect a kid to commit car theft and and all he cares about is that the kid not be hurt and not taking responsibility that he raised a criminal. Things are truly upside down and backwards these days.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 642 by ooh-child, posted 12-20-2012 4:48 PM ooh-child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 650 by PsychMJC, posted 12-20-2012 5:13 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 653 by ooh-child, posted 12-20-2012 5:25 PM Faith has replied
 Message 654 by PsychMJC, posted 12-20-2012 5:31 PM Faith has replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 647 of 5179 (685146)
12-20-2012 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 639 by Faith
12-20-2012 4:39 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
Faith writes:
That sheet of statistics you supplied had every kind of crime jumbled up in one number and when I referred to it as evidence that crime had risen everybody jumped on me for the imprecision of YOUR statistic. That's not exactly reporting murder with precision.
Ah, bless you. Trying to understand what's going on by analysing actual facts is not something you're familiar with I know, but in this case you should at least try, because there is a lot of factual information available and it might help you have an informed opinion rather than an insane opinion.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 639 by Faith, posted 12-20-2012 4:39 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 648 by Faith, posted 12-20-2012 5:03 PM Tangle has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 648 of 5179 (685147)
12-20-2012 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 647 by Tangle
12-20-2012 5:02 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
Get your statistics clear in the first place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 647 by Tangle, posted 12-20-2012 5:02 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 656 by Tangle, posted 12-20-2012 5:34 PM Faith has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 649 of 5179 (685151)
12-20-2012 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by kofh2u
12-19-2012 7:23 AM


Re: Removal of Constitutional rights

This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by kofh2u, posted 12-19-2012 7:23 AM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 666 by kofh2u, posted 12-21-2012 1:47 AM ramoss has not replied
 Message 667 by kofh2u, posted 12-21-2012 1:56 AM ramoss has not replied

PsychMJC
Member (Idle past 1302 days)
Posts: 36
From: Modesto, California
Joined: 11-30-2007


(2)
Message 650 of 5179 (685153)
12-20-2012 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by Faith
12-20-2012 5:00 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
And yes, if a kid knows the car owner is armed the kid will leave the car alone. Two plus two is four.
You are really going to take this position? What a joke, I should have known trying to discuss something with you was a worthless endeavor. It's much more like me trying to tell you 2+2=4, and you saying "NO HUH" and then stomping off in a huff.
It's common knowledge that guns are legal in this country. Gun owners still have their cars stolen. Gun owners have their homes burglarized.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Faith, posted 12-20-2012 5:00 PM Faith has not replied

foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 651 of 5179 (685155)
12-20-2012 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 628 by Rahvin
12-20-2012 3:16 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
CatholicScientist writes:
I don't agree with this. The government has a vested interest in its people being alive. Without the people there's nothing to govern. There's no situation where the government would go to war with its own people, which is what it would take if the people are armed.
Again - look at Iraq and Afghanistan. "Terrorists" are essentially identical to "armed citizen militias." The difference is primarily in the tactics each is willing to ethically embrace, and the political position of the person applying the label.
What does Iraq and Afghanistan and terrorists have to do with an armed populace trying to prevent tyranny from taking hold in a democracy?
The armed resistance did nothing of significance. The remaining populace is still alive. One can put down a resistance without nuking the population in its entirety.
You cannot maintain a normal civilization with children safely going to school and people going to the theater and weddings while bombs are going off all the time and bullets are flying everywhere. It is also hell on the economy.
CatholicScientist writes:
If the people are not armed, then there's no need for any military-like 'invasion' in the first place. The people are already defenseless and could be pushed around in much more subtle ways.
Why would those "subtle ways" not work against an armed populace? If the "subtle ways" would work regardless, and the tyrannical government desires a living subservient population, why not just stick with the "subtle ways" in the first place?
Subtle ways do not work regardless. If the population is armed, subtle ways will not work. Iraq is not equivalent to what the american military would do to its own population but some points can still be made. How long did it take american troops to subdue the iraqi resistance? How much bloodshed had to occur. Is the resistance truly quashed? If american troops returned to iraq in the numbers they had originally, the resistance would get turned up to the levels it had before. Iraq is actually a good example of why a population should be armed. America will never be able to take over iraq for its own. There will always be bloodshed and resistance and no one will ever be safe to walk down the streets. The economy will never take off in those conditions. The american government knows that the same thing will happen if they try to install a tyrannical government in the united states. There will be bloodshed in the streets and IED's will be continually going off and blowing people to bits. You might be able to establish a tyranny regardless, but you will never have peace and a safe environment for the people to live in and you will never have a strong economy.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 628 by Rahvin, posted 12-20-2012 3:16 PM Rahvin has not replied

foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 652 of 5179 (685157)
12-20-2012 5:22 PM



Replies to this message:
 Message 658 by Panda, posted 12-20-2012 6:25 PM foreveryoung has not replied

ooh-child
Member (Idle past 344 days)
Posts: 242
Joined: 04-10-2009


Message 653 of 5179 (685159)
12-20-2012 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by Faith
12-20-2012 5:00 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
I MIGHT, I MIGHT NOT. I HAVE NOT CONSIDERED THE SITUATION. I stated the Second Amendment principle, I support the principle, there's a reason we have the Second Amendment, to give us security against ALL KINDS OF TYRANNIES AND PREDATIONS, including CRIME, house invasion, government roundjups, gthe works. Some situations are obviously going to be beyond small arms resistance. Good grief, stop pushing the envelope here.
No reason to shout, I'm following your logic in support of the 2nd amendment, not pushing any envelope in the least.
Since you say you've not considered the situation, may I ask that you consider what your reaction would be, based on your appreciation of the 2nd amendment, if a group of Americans were forced from their homes & placed in government supported camps? Would you encourage them to resist with guns, would you provide them weapons?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Faith, posted 12-20-2012 5:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 668 by Faith, posted 12-21-2012 2:07 AM ooh-child has seen this message but not replied

PsychMJC
Member (Idle past 1302 days)
Posts: 36
From: Modesto, California
Joined: 11-30-2007


(1)
Message 654 of 5179 (685160)
12-20-2012 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by Faith
12-20-2012 5:00 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
But how very odd that this parent is requring me to be protecting his kid from harm during a criminal act as if it's just normal to expect a kid to commit car theft and and all he cares about is that the kid not be hurt and not taking responsibility that he raised a criminal. Things are truly upside down and backwards these days.
I may get suspended for this, but since it was directed at ME I will respond in the exact fashion I wish to.
You can go fuck yourself.
If you think the world would be a better place if everyone played Judge Dredd and acted as judge, jury, and executioner for whatever crime they so wished, you are certainly no Christian.
You are certainly not a decent person.
Not taking responsibility?
PsychMJC writes:
I would want my child punished for stealing someones car, but feel death is a bit harsh.
Is that not taking responsibility? I would want them punished. I just don't think they should be killed. How fuckin' awful of me. I forgot you are into that Old Testament style justice. Me, I have empathy. That makes me a whole lot better of a person.
If a kid steals something, candy perhaps, from a store, they should be punished. They shouldn't lose a hand. That's overreaction and a terrible example of parenting.
This kid just ran into my backyard to grab a soccer ball. I didn't invite him, should I have shot him? How many grand kids do you have Faith? Would you just say "Well, they had it coming" if I shot your grandchild in the face for touching my car? How about for looking suspicious in my neighborhood?
Somehow I value human life more than you do. Somehow I value human life over objects. And I am not a Christian. Weird. Things truly ARE are upside and backwards.
Edited by PsychMJC, : No reason given.
Edited by PsychMJC, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Faith, posted 12-20-2012 5:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by Rahvin, posted 12-20-2012 5:34 PM PsychMJC has replied
 Message 669 by Faith, posted 12-21-2012 2:11 AM PsychMJC has replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(1)
Message 655 of 5179 (685162)
12-20-2012 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by PsychMJC
12-20-2012 5:31 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
One might ask Faith what the car to human life exchange rate is. We could calculate the dollar amount of a human life that way. I mean, is it okay to kill someone over a Ford Fiesta, or is it only okay to kill someone over a brand new Mercedes? How much does someone have to try to steal before it's okay to kill them for it?

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by PsychMJC, posted 12-20-2012 5:31 PM PsychMJC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 657 by PsychMJC, posted 12-20-2012 5:43 PM Rahvin has not replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 656 of 5179 (685163)
12-20-2012 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by Faith
12-20-2012 5:03 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
Faith writes:
Get your statistics clear in the first place.
I'm trying Faith, I'm trying.
So what would you like to know? I'm not remotely an expert but I have spent a few hours trying to understand.
In return can you show me any statistics at all? You say that the rate of what you rather emotively call 'home invasion' is much lower than ours and therefore justifies the extraordinary high level of gun ownership in the US. I'd like to understand this statistic better. Thanks.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by Faith, posted 12-20-2012 5:03 PM Faith has not replied

PsychMJC
Member (Idle past 1302 days)
Posts: 36
From: Modesto, California
Joined: 11-30-2007


Message 657 of 5179 (685164)
12-20-2012 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 655 by Rahvin
12-20-2012 5:34 PM


Re: These Yanks are Crazy.....
*sigh*
Edited by PsychMJC, : No reason given.
Edited by PsychMJC, : Inappropriate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 655 by Rahvin, posted 12-20-2012 5:34 PM Rahvin has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 658 of 5179 (685169)
12-20-2012 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by foreveryoung
12-20-2012 5:22 PM


It didn't help
Correct.
That is what happens when the Germany army meets legally armed Polish civilians.
2.5 million Polish die and Germany takes over their country.
Which side are you actually arguing for?

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by foreveryoung, posted 12-20-2012 5:22 PM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 661 by kofh2u, posted 12-20-2012 7:59 PM Panda has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 659 of 5179 (685172)
12-20-2012 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 609 by dronestar
12-20-2012 11:42 AM


Re: more information
(We are all doomed, . . . can those Mayan's prophetize or what?.)
We'll find out at 21:00 tomorrow, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 609 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2012 11:42 AM dronestar has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 660 of 5179 (685177)
12-20-2012 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 638 by ooh-child
12-20-2012 4:38 PM


growth of suspicious detention camps...
I'm still curious if you think tyranny is forcing people into government-run camps.
Jerry Ventura, the ex-governor, was asking exactly that question, What and who and why.
Tyranny is what exists just before the people revolt against a government.
What is tyranny if not policies that closed the Banks for a week, wiped out privately owned companies, screwed bond and stock holders at GM, saw senators and congressmen get filthy rich, and the whole economy on the verge of disorganized disintegration?
Wasn't that what happen if France when all that was left was cake?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 638 by ooh-child, posted 12-20-2012 4:38 PM ooh-child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by ooh-child, posted 12-20-2012 11:22 PM kofh2u has replied

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